What Livestock is Essential to your Plan?

[patience]

It varies with a person's situation, IMHO. When we lived on a 45 acre homestead, we kept a brood cow (she could be milked, but we chose not to), raised her calves for beef, raised some pigs, chickens for meat and eggs, and had a pair of draft horses.

Now, since we retired to a one acre rural lot, we only have 5 hens for eggs. In a pinch we could raise some chickens for meat, but we would have to buy or trade for the feed, which usually is not a paying proposition. Same goes for rabbits, or a goat.

What do you consider the minimum livestock for your self reliance plans?

[rvm45]

Where I live, livestock is pretty much out of the question.

Maybe Rabbits, Guinea Pigs I've thought of raising Domestic Rats for food.

Pigeons in a "Dove Cote" are a possiblity.

A "Dove Cote" is like a really big Marten House, but only about 4 foot off the ground. It is hollow on the inside, and each nest is fitted with its own hinged door, to allow you unrestricted access to the Nest.

When the little babies are about half grown, attach a Jesse to one leg, an staple it to the inside wall. His parents will rustle up their own grub, and his too--and when he's full grown, harvest and eat him.

This is "Squab". Full grown Pigeons are edible, but tough.

You can also harvest pigeon eggs, if you care to.

.....RVM45

[hua man]

I don't think it will qualify as "livestock" as you wouldn't be raising them, but one food usually overlooked on the sportsman's chart would be bream. Panfish, bluegill, pumkinseed, sunfish, it has many names , to include something unprintable here when they steal your bait going after something bigger. Easy to catch, simple to clean and quick to cook. Not to mention they thrive in almost any fresh water body that has fish.

Cats and dogs- I know many see this as Taboo, not wanting to eat their frou-frou family pet as a main course, but which would be more humane: sending Fluffy out to either starve/freeze to death/eaten by larger animals, or a quick clean death surrounded by friends before becoming stew? A dark question that will be answered by your children's rumbling bellies.

Rats- start with a mating pair and get rid of them as soon as the nestlings are weaned. Like pork, their flavor will be influenced by what they are fed, not to mention any pathogens they will carry.

Songbirds- during WWII, finches were kept to help stave off starvation in Europe. Until the 1940s/1950s, it was legal to hunt songbirds. That included pigeon/dove in the Cities. (If they lifted that exemption, many people wouldn't worry about their cars after a wash )

[rvm45]

Well, if you wouldn't desert--or worse yet--eat your Children in the Exact Same Circumstance.....

Then you shouldn't desert/eat your Dog either.

Birds--

I saw Andrew Zimmer eat a Sparrow whole on "Bizarre Foods".

They raise them in Vietnam--feed then nothing but clean Grain. They Pluck, but don't gut them, then Roast them on a stick.....

They eat them whole, bones, beak and all.

This eating without gutting seems a common theme with Small Birds--up to pigeon sized, with Rats and Mice.

Anyway, I could maybe go along with eating a Sparrow whole--much as I dislike the idea of Eating Spritz.

At least with birds, a good firm squeeze while plucking, should get rid of the worst of the Spritz.

Anyway, Sparrows are very numerous, an there are all sorts of neat live traps for Sparrows.

Do you remember the old nursery rhyme about "Four and twenty Black Birds baked in a Pie"?

Twenty four Starlings ought to just about furnish the Meat part of a Pot Pie.

Hey, even if you don't have anywhere near that many--If your supper is Rice and more Rice, and not even all the unflavored Rice than you'd like to have.....

Two or three Robins, Cardinals or Blue Jays would make a welcome addition.

A friend that I had many years ago was a Falconer. He liked to feed his Hawks Small Birds occasionally (illegal--not the point).

He had a Funnel Trap that he'd made out of Quarter Inch Chicken Wire--O, say 2'X 5'X 1'--it being one foot tall--hmm, maybe 18" tall.

Anyway, it had a funnel on one end--just like a Fish or Turtle Trap, and it was always occupied bi five to as many as a dozen Birds.

He was also a Registered "Bird Bander".

Something to keep in mind.

.....RVM45

[remembergoliad]

Pig. A pair of them. Have you seen how MANY offspring can come from ONE pair of pigs in a year? Partner up with a few neighbors and you'll be covered up with pork within 2-3 months. Even the potbellied pet types, they make those out of pork too

Pigs aren't nasty, if they're not overcrowded. A couple of pigs in a normal-to-oversize back yard is no worse than a dog or three in a small yard.

Sure, there's food to worry about, but worry about that NOW, while there's still some civilization, still a chance to "network" and make some friends--REAL friends, not just drinkin' buddy-type friends.

[patience]

I don't get into eating most of the stuff mentioned above, but I have eaten more than my share of tree-rat, and bunnies. They tell me that rat traps work just as well on the tree kind. I don't know first hand about that, but I know that box traps are easy to fashion and I've harvested a lot of bunnies that way, back when I could sell the hides for something, too.

In a bad situation, I would eat what I had to, but the idea off prepping to me is that I fix things so I can eat what I LIKE. Lots of farmers around me, and they all manage to break stuff that I can fix. So, I doubt if I ever need to eat things I don't care for, since those farmers have plenty of chicken, pork, and beef to trade for in such a case.

That idea of trade and community is sorely lacking in so many PAW stories, except when it sort of seems an afterthought. I think it should be the centerpiece, instead. After all, that is how the world has worked for a very long time--long before high tech.

I think it is worthwhile to consider what you can do to trade for what you need in the way of livestock, as for many other things. I can keep small livestock--rabbits, chickens, and suchlike, and I can fish nearby. But on one acre, there isn't enough feed for any more. The protein is going to come from elsewhere for me. When we had a bigger place, we raised enough to sell some critters, but not now, so trade it has to be.

[astrid]

Pretty sure that you would have to store more food for any livestock, including chickens or rabbits, than you would get in return. So it is only a realistic proposition if you have stored more way more than you need. You would be better off eating a combination of pulses and grains than feeding it to livestock. It takes two acres of year round grass to feed one cow. Or tons of feed. So if you need two for breeding and one to eat, you need 6 acres. If you have poor ground it would take more. Same with any other animal. You have to feed two breeders that you don't get to eat, and the one you do get to eat will still consume more food than you will get from it. 

As for eating pets, not going to keep you alive for long is it? A cat would make one very poor meal. And I agree, eating a member of the family is not a choice I believe I would make. Cats would earn their way killing pests, and feed themselves, or take very little to feed them. It would be very cheap to stockpile cat food. Dogs are the best early warning system, and security if they are bigger, but would need their own food supply. 


 

[pbbrown0]

Feb 13, 2012 7:41:55 GMT -6 rvm45 said:

Do you remember the old nursery rhyme about "Four and twenty Black Birds baked in a Pie"?



....RVM45

Sorry, RVM45.  That reference to the 'four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie' was a tongue in cheek minstrel's sarcasm referring to the twenty-four clergymen who were caught in a conspiracy to assassinate the queen. 

Astrid you raise an excellent point about food for the livestock; but our modern culture has distorted our thinking about how to be self sustained.  If you are raising livestock for food, their food MUST come from the land where you raise them. Planning to use food that was grown and 'refined' can only be viewed as a stop gap measure; not a solution.

The livestock you raise should be a choice that is sustainable for the long term in the environment and space you have.  Chickens can feed off bugs, grass, seeds, bark, etc. on the ground if you have natural vegetation they can access.  The eggs they produce will actually be more nutritious that way. I have seen ideas for larger chicken cages that have slat or chicken wire floors so they can be drug to new locations periodically to allow a fresh grazing spots.  Of course winter feed and accommodations for your live stock are serious issues, but again, whether birds, bunnies, or Brahma bulls the winter feed needs to come from your land or that of a nearby neighbor with whom you have a very good relationship. 

[pbbrown0]

Sorry Astrid, I meant to say 'food that is grown and refined elsewhere, so it has to be transported to your location'.

[firefly]

I'd love to get a trio of meat rabbits. there are many people who feed their rabbits mostly weeds. sure, they grow slower, but I wouldn't have to give them any of my oats, or trade for any.

Also, wouldn't have to worry about the meat going bad. 1 kill = 1, maybe 2 meals. unless you have a big root cellar, a whole pig will go bad quickly. plus rabbit poo is great fertilizer, and while they aren't that sturdy, they will have usable pelts. And hey, if SHTF I could use a lucky rabbit's foot.

[freshwaterpearl]

Chickens. They eat fleas and ticks. I can grow sunflowers for them as well as a little wheat, corn, etc., whatever will grow at my new place. Eggs are a complete food, and with a rooster I can have meat year round that does not need a freezer.

I'd also like to run three rams over the summer as long as I have someone to kill them. My thought is to get docile wool breeds and shear them before butchering. They would also mow the lawn for me.

[forthteller]

I would think a couple of honey bee hives would be a great add for any good survival plan. They feed themselves, pollinate. provide honey with 1000plus year shelf life, multiple stings have therapeutic value with arthritis and a few other ailments. The was is good for many preservative and other uses. You can make soap and cosmetics for the by-products. I have 1000 hives on my property, there is no downside.

[forthteller]

Livestock is not a necessity in any survival plan. It eats what you could eat, protein can be gotten many other ways without holding you back. Forget the meat, get barter stuff and trade for it if you need it that bad. A necessity for a survival plan is coffee and tea in metal cans. Extremely long shelf life, not big draw for rodents and other animals and will have great trading value 5 plus years into any apocalypse.

[wvfarmgirl]

Goats and chickens. Goats can survive on rough browse and come up to butchering weight quickly. A doe can kid 3 times within 2years. Average of 6 kids within that time period.
Chickens can free range and feed themselves in a pinch. Might have to hunt for the eggs but can live on minimal inputs. Both can be fed from the homestead’s resources if needed.

[papaof2]

Jan 21, 2018 17:28:26 GMT -6 forthteller said:

Livestock is not a necessity in any survival plan. It eats what you could eat, protein can be gotten many other ways without holding you back. Forget the meat, get barter stuff and trade for it if you need it that bad. A necessity for a survival plan is coffee and tea in metal cans. Extremely long shelf life, not big draw for rodents and other animals and will have great trading value 5 plus years into any apocalypse.

Tea and coffee beans kept for long periods in wooden containers in the days of sailing ships and horse-drawn wagons. I'm planning to store some tea bags (Earl Grey) to see whether I can tell a difference after they've been in aluminized mylar bags with oxygen absorbers for 3 or 5 or 10 years. Considering how long tea keeps in a canister, I don't expect to be able to tell a difference. I'll take a box of 100 tea bags and put 33 bags in each group, all of them stored in sections of the same aluminized mylar bag and each group with an oxygen absorber. That makes the storage conditions identical.

[scaredfox]

Three or four Pygmy goats. Feed themselves on browsing and provide milk and milk products and a few decent meals of realistically three or four kids each year. Ducks with wings clipped so they can be be browsers and give eggs even in winter. Chickens... obviously. Couple of cats, a small and a very large dog, and if at all possible, a pony for garden work and transportation. Pigeons in a dove cote , young kept inside so their parents feed them up for you. Rabbits. Lots and lots of rabbits. A worm farm for the garden and for fishing.

[willc453]

Used to raise rabbits as a kid which helped put extra food on the table, along with hunting them with George, my dog. There's a prepper club in the Reno area and more than once I've seen free livestock ads on Craigslist.....not just rabbits, but ducks and chickens, along with the occasional rooster. I've also seen goats for sale and a family just down the street has at least one because it tends to get out from time to time and come over to our place to munch on weeds. When I see the free livestock ads, post them on the preppers board as more than one of them can do this. Anyone out there check Craigslist for free livestock?

[papaof2]

I check the free section of Craig's List daily for anything of possible use. The nearest one is "metro Atlanta" and that covers 7 or 9 counties, depending on whose definition of "metro" you are using. I'm not likely to drive 70 miles one way for free bookcases but there are things within a reasonable distance, where reasonable is determined by: value / (gas cost + time).

Free chickens are common. Pot belly pigs are second. Then goats and ducks. Then rabbits.

I also check the "For $ale" sections a couple of times a month for batteries, solar panels and a few other items - the solar deals have dried up greatly this year as people don't want contact with others. The dealer with a pallet of ten 250 watt panels for $999 is no longer posting anything - bad when I now have the $$$ to do that. I did see one very good deal on a tractor but it was 600 miles away (seems the poster had a bad day and didn't know she was posting on the metro Atlanta site until someone contacted her about shipping the tractor to Georgia).

[willc453]

Check Facebook Marketplace.....that's what I've been doing on class A motorhomes in the Reno and Ocala, Florida area where youngest brother and his family live.
Craigslist is just too small when it comes to looking for stuff vs Facebook, though there's no free stuff shown on Facebook.