Random questions and maybe thoughts

[bluefox2]

Just what the title says.  Random things that wander through my mind or yours.

 Solar panels:  Do those of you who have them wash them off or not?  I ask because we had a pretty dry and dusty summer here in the KC area and I wonder what that does to your power collection efficiency.

Sump pumps:  Do those of you who have them just let the water run to the gutter in the street or do you collect it?  Again it may not be much at a time but who knows?
  Just a couple of questions for consideration.  Feel free to add your own or answer any you see.

[papaof2]

Solar panel cleanliness is important. However, during the months that we have some rain almost every week I just let the rain do the work. If there is no rain, then I check a panel I can reach and if my finger comes back dirty it's time for at least a hose down. Ground mounted panels are more likely to be reachable with a spray bottle of some type of soap/cleaner and a cloth or mop. Somewhere there's a note I made about the difference between a dirty panel's output and the same panel's output five minutes later after it had been cleaned - something like 10% more power from the clean panel so it is definitely worth doing.

Don't have a sump pump. The use you could make of the water depends on where it came from and how much chemical contamination it might have from <whatever>. You need to find all the sources that feed into that sump pump before trying to use the water.

Yes, we have a basement. No, it doesn't leak. The only water problem I ever had was created by a previous owner who "piped" a downspout away from the house - but used perforated plastic pipe which simply poured the water down into the new well it dug in the dirt beside that corner of the basement. Replacing that pipe with the proper type got all the water away from the house and eliminated the leak. The guy was a mechanical engineer and apparently did OK with the bathtub racers at Georgia Tech but his house maintenance skills were not even at the middle school level :-( There's no easy (or inexpensive) solution to the unlevel ceramic tile floor he laid in the kitchen - directly on the subfloor. He used neither a level nor tile spacers so there are definite "center of the room" troughs where he did the lazy man's troweling of the thinset (making it thinner in the center and thicker at the edges) and the tile spacing varies across the room. He also tapped into two 120 volt breakers to get 240 for the big air compressor he had in the basement and there are some other less-than-perfect bits of electrical wiring that probably can be attributed to him.
I'll also credit him with installing 10 lighting fixtures in the "garage" area in the basement, each with two 40 watt tubes - painfully bright the first time you turn it on. I split that into a group of two fixtures over the workbench area and then the others on three-way switches (by the entry door from the house and the garage door).

[techsar]

Usually clean them 2 or 3 times a year. Pine pollen is horrendous here and makes a huge drop in efficiency. Ground mount (now) so hose and a sponge mop do the trick.

[papaof2]

Very aware of the pine pollen in certain states. We have a month each year when everyone drives a yellow car ;-)

[bluefox2]

So sump pump water may be contaminated. Is it any worse than well water before treatment? They are both filtered through the ground so should be about the same. I do get the checking the sources of water though. At the very least it should be good for flushing use.
Another thought is fuel. I have recently run across videos and articles about converting waste plastic to diesel fuel. It appears to be a viable idea. The first video I saw was about a guy on a Pacific island doing it to run his gen set. He provided his neighbors access to charge their electronics and they brought him all the plastic they found on the beaches. It was some process called pyrolosis (spelling?) Apparently it involves building a type of still to cook the plastic into liquid. an interesting idea maybe.

[bluefox2]

Dec 15, 2022 16:45:20 GMT -6 techsar said:

Usually clean them 2 or 3 times a year. Pine pollen is horrendous here and makes a huge drop in efficiency. Ground mount (now) so hose and a sponge mop do the trick.

Cottonwood like snow in July here.  Hose out the ac and car radiator frequently

[papaof2]

Basically, plastic is made from compounds derived from crude oil - just another bit out of the cracking tower at an oil refinery. Pyrolisis is controlled heating, sometimes in an inert atmosphere. More details here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolysis

I wonder how much heat you need to convert plastic back into a semi-petroleum product and where the people doing that get their heat. Possibly the best source would be a proper vessel for the process and using a Fresnel lens to concentrate sunlight on that vessel. You would need to determine how many hours/day you have adequate sunlight (sounds just like PV solar power, doesn't it?). You would need to be able to adjust the distance from the Fresnel lens to the vessel and/or have some type of shutter or shades to control the temperature of the vessel. Probably should have at least temperature measurement instrumentation inside that vessel because most processes have an optimum temperature (cakes bake at 325F, pizza at 450F. What's the cooking time and temperature for scrap plastic?) I think the heat source and the optimum time and temperature data will determine whether you can make oil from available plastic.

Are those tossed stryofoam containers from takeout food useful? Water/soda/whatever bottles? Bottle caps? Clear plastic anti-theft wrap for small items? Plastic shopping/grocery bags? Do you have enough available plastic to justify the time, cost and effort of setting up a pyrolisis system?

I have a 12" or so square Fresnel lens that I purchased years ago for another project that never saw the light of day :-( but I did store the pieces correctly ;-) That would probably work for heating a small vessel but you need to determine how to mount the vessel in the "cooking frame". The Fresnel lens could be in a wooden frame as it will not get hot - but whatever is at the focal point of the lens will get very hot, very quickly in full sun. Aluminum melts at 1221F so could your holder for the pyrolisis vessel be made of aluminum? That goes back to "How hot?" for cooking the plastic. Did any of the videos give time/temperature data?

[bluefox2]

Dec 15, 2022 21:21:11 GMT -6 papaof2 said:

Basically, plastic is made from compounds derived from crude oil - just another bit out of the cracking tower at an oil refinery. Pyrolisis is controlled heating, sometimes in an inert atmosphere. More details here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolysis

I wonder how much heat you need to convert plastic back into a semi-petroleum product and where the people doing that get their heat. Possibly the best source would be a proper vessel for the process and using a Fresnel lens to concentrate sunlight on that vessel. You would need to determine how many hours/day you have adequate sunlight (sounds just like PV solar power, doesn't it?). You would need to be able to adjust the distance from the Fresnel lens to the vessel and/or have some type of shutter or shades to control the temperature of the vessel. Probably should have at least temperature measurement instrumentation inside that vessel because most processes have an optimum temperature (cakes bake at 325F, pizza at 450F. What's the cooking time and temperature for scrap plastic?) I think the heat source and the optimum time and temperature data will determine whether you can make oil from available plastic.

Are those tossed stryofoam containers from takeout food useful? Water/soda/whatever bottles? Bottle caps? Clear plastic anti-theft wrap for small items? Plastic shopping/grocery bags? Do you have enough available plastic to justify the time, cost and effort of setting up a pyrolisis system?

I have a 12" or so square Fresnel lens that I purchased years ago for another project that never saw the light of day :-( but I did store the pieces correctly ;-) That would probably work for heating a small vessel but you need to determine how to mount the vessel in the "cooking frame". The Fresnel lens could be in a wooden frame as it will not get hot - but whatever is at the focal point of the lens will get very hot, very quickly in full sun. Aluminum melts at 1221F so could your holder for the pyrolisis vessel be made of aluminum? That goes back to "How hot?" for cooking the plastic. Did any of the videos give time/temperature data?

One showed building a type of sealed still on a small scale for use on a stove top.  If I remember rightly the temps quoted were about 400 degreesF.  The whole setup kind of looked like a moonshine still, but without the open flame due to the gases produced.  It might be an interesting project for someone with the time and skills.

[papaof2]

Cracking petroleum is basically done with a BIG still - cracking towers are typically about 100 feet high and equipped with a catalyst that aids in the cracking process,* with takeoff points at varying levels depending on the volatility of each product (90 weight differential lube is heavier than 30 weight oil which is heavier than diesel which is heavier than gasoline, etc.).

Regardless of heat source, I think I would recommend doing that outside, well away from any building, and wearing PPE including breathing protection with a volatile organic compounds filter, as heating plastic has the potential to produce some unpleasant if not harmful (and possibly flammable?) by-products. The "solar cooker" using a Fresnel lens looks good as there is no open flame needed, only the vessel itself is hot and there's one less source of possible unwanted ignition. You would be limited to sunny or partly cloudy days but there is no cost for the almost unlimited heating fuel - a positive if it's SHTF.

I'd need to do some detailed research on VOCs produced when heating various types of plastic and what the melting and outgassing temperatures were for each type. Most of my exploration of new-to-me processes is done slowly, with lots of research and "small batch" testing - but I have very few scars to show from years of that type research ;-)

* jmtest.com/cracking-towers/

[papaof2]

Several articles on "waste plastic to diesel":

www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-09148-2

[papaof2]

A process from 2001 that uses temperatures up to 800F. Not much detail but it mentions "patented process" so you should be able to look up the patent for whatever details are available.

www.canplastics.com/features/technology-turns-waste-plastic-to-diesel-fuel/

Technology turns waste plastic to diesel fuel

Canadian Plastics September 1, 2001


A process to turn mixed waste plastic into clean-burning Grade 1 diesel fuel has reached the commercialization stage, after 20 years of development work. The patented process, developed by Environmental Fuel Development Co., utilizes a high-temperature technology, Thermalysis, to convert plastic to fuel. Contamination and impurities are destroyed by temperatures over 800 F. Also, with few exceptions, mixed plastics products composed of most major resin grades can be used as a feedstock for the process.

The company, located in Kelso, WA, has sold two units to a company located in the same city. According to Christy Sutton, marketing manager with EFD, the units are being used to carry out final pilot-stage testing and fine-tune the process before launch of full-scale production and commercialization.

“The technology’s cut-and-dried; it’s something we’ve been working on for a long time,” says Sutton. “The only minor issues are things like how to best feed the plastic and how certain plastics may influence the type of fuel we generate.”

One class of plastics that appears to cause problems is polystyrene. Sutton says that polystyrene is usually segregated from other mixed plastic, and that the company is currently investigating another method to process it.

Fuel generated from the process is extremely low in sulfur and contains a minimum 10,000 BTU more energy per gallon than regular (grades 1 through 6) diesel fuel, according to company specification data. Potential buyers of the technology include hospitals currently incinerating or disposing plastic waste, chemical companies with contaminated plastic containers and waste disposal companies. Approximately 100,000 tons of waste plastic is produced per day in the U.S., enough to generate 28 million gallons of fuel.

EFD has purchasing commitments from parties in Australia and Japan, and is looking to sell the technology through licensed arrangements in North America.

Environmental Fuel Development Co. 360-423-3389

[bluefox2]

There was also mention in the stuff I read about producing kerosene and other flammables from this stuff. It would potentially solve a waste disposal problem.

[papaof2]

You just need to see the details - some plastics are not among those which can readily be converted to some type of fuel and most of the efficient processes require some added chemicals (etheylene, among others) which may increase the price of the final product and any commercial "plastic diesel" would have to burn like current "real diesel" to match the environmental requirements (one specific nlend of plastic diesel and real diesel produces less smoke than real diesel but more of the nitrogen oxides - you win some and you lose some). If you have the one and only diesel engine in the county there probably won't be anyone available to enforce EPA regulations but producing a commercial version of "plastic diesel" would be subject to those regulations. Same for "plastic gasoline" until we're in a Mad Max scenario. You could probably hide some of the use of "plastic kerosene" (there's only a little difference between kerosene and #1 diesel) but would the smell or the contaminants preclude using it indoors?