Possibly useful small powerbox

[papaof2]

Need a small powerbox for when you're camping, traveling or the power will be out for a couple of hours? $117.99 + tax & free shipping

This is cheaper than AliExpress and you're reasonably sure it will come with US AC outlets.

www.walmart.com/ip/Flashfish-200W-Portable-Power-Station-40800mAh-Solar-Generator-Portable-Generator-for-Camping-Travel-Emergency/593412624

FlashFish E200

The user manual is here: images.51microshop.com/9837/Manual/FlashFish-E200_compressed.pdf

Maximum of 200 watts AC, pure sine wave inverter
two 12 volt, 10 amp 5.5/2.1 coaxial power connectors - if you need a male connector that can handle 8-10 amps, Mouser.com has them.**
two 18 watt USB QC 3.0 outputs
one 5 volt, 2.4 amps USB outlet

AC charger
car charger cable
user manual

Can be solar charged - they offer 50 watt and 60 watt portable solar panels for more than the price of the E200 itself. You can get better prices if you don't need a folding panel. A 100 watt panel inside a window can probably deliver all the power this unit can handle and the solar panel never needs cleaning. HQST 100 watt polycrystalline panel is under $100 delivered and about 2' x 4'.

It won't run your fridge, freezer, central heat/air, blow dryer or 1000 watt space heater.

It probably will run your CPAP for a while but you need to check the CPAP manual for what power it needs.

It will charge your phone, tablet, laptop, game device, drone, 5000mah power bank, 20 and 40 volt tool batteries (most of those chargers need pure sine wave power) and electric shaver.

It does have a low, medium, high & SOS LED for room lighting but you may have better lighting options ;-)

It's 8.2" x 4.3" x 6.2" and weighs about 5lbs.

Free 90 day return if you don't like / need / want it.

Will I buy one? Not sure yet, but it would certainly extend the time I wait before turning on the big backup system and the box being pure sine wave means I could run the 50" TV for about an hour ;-)

**Mouser #: 490-PP3-002AH
Mfr. #: PP3-002AH
Desc.: DC Power Connectors DC Power Connectors DC Power Plugs & Audio Plugs
$1.34 each in lot of 10, $1.63 each in smaller quantities.
www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/490-PP3-002AH

[papaof2]

I did order the FlashFish E200 from Walmart: pawfiction.proboards.com/thread/2140/possibly-useful-small-powerbox

www.walmart.com/ip/Flashfish-200W-Portable-Power-Station-40800mAh-Solar-Generator-Portable-Generator-for-Camping-Travel-Emergency/593412624

It arrived late Thursday and I'm putting some of my "Awake because it's not yet time for more pain med" time to use in determining the E200's capacity and capabilities. I will have some pictures linked on another site.

1. The "pure sine wave" inverter they advertise is real and it delivers a reasonably clean, if a bit unsteady, sine wave (running with a 40 watt incandescent bulb as load). The waveform generator used to produce that sine wave in not as good (the number of steps used in generating the waveform) as some of the bigger (and more expensive) inverters, although the waveform is more of a sine wave than what our power co-op delivers. The Kill-A-Watt shows the load as 37.2 to 37.3 watts and with the inverter probably being 80 to 85% efficient it should run 3 hours 15 minutes to 3 hours 30 minutes for the "151 watt hours" of advertised capacity. I'll know the exact run time when the "low battery" alarm beeps - or the light goes out - because there's a handed electric clock plugged in on the power strip on the output of the E200.
Scope trace of waveform: jecarter.us/images/e200-waveform-sm.jpg
Remember that the E200 is not grounded: jecarter.us/images/e200-ac-voltage-no-ground-sm.jpg

2. The included charging wall wart brought the battery up from about "half charge" (per the battery display, and the typical lithium battery shipping state) to "Fully Charged" in a little over 2 hours. When the battery is at the "Low Voltage Shutdown" point, I'll recharge again and let the Kill-A-Watt tell me many watt hours went back in to recharge the power used during the AC load discharge test.

3. Typical powerboxes with lithium ion cells use a 3s (3 cells in series) configuration for the battery pack. The "12 volt" outputs are connected to the battery pack via a load sensor, so those outputs could be from 12.6 volts with fully charged cells (3 * 4.2 volts = 12.6 volts) down to the low voltage shutoff of the battery pack (typically at 3.2 to 3.0 volts per cell or 9.6 to 9.0 volts from the pack). I'll test those outputs, the QC outputs and the USB 5 volt, 2.4 amp output after the battery pack is recharged. If we have the promised 4 hours of sun on Sunday (seems an appropriate day ;-) I might try testing the solar charging.

4. You can NOT use any output (AC or DC) while the unit is charging. There is a way around that but you must be willing to open the case and void the warranty to make the changes needed to do that (add a second charge controller). Maybe $20-$30 for parts plus your time. They list 50 watt and 60 watt solar panels for use with the E200. The Kill-A-Watt showed the AC charger running at about 45 watts so 60 watts might be the limit. I have a couple of 20 watt panels and then my solar panel stock jumps to the 100 watt level. 100 watts might be OK on a cloudy day but I don't know how robust the charge electronics in the E200 might be so not something I can recommend. If you want a "no hassle" emergency power device for a non-technical friend or family member, put a 30 watt solar panel in a south-facing window, put the powerbox on a table by, or the floor under, that window and run the solar panel's wires down to the charge input on the powerbox. They will have instantly available power for charging phones, tablet, laptop, or whatever and it comes with a flexible-necked USB light to provide some light in the room.

The actual testing -

At 1.5 hours in, the hot spots on the case were on the back at 93F, the left end (charge input end) 96F and on the top under the left end of the handle at 103F. With the E200 rated at 200 watts AC power, it's running at about 20% of the maximum rated load and in a room that's currently at 76F. Do your own extrapolation for higher loads and warmer spaces but expect the unit to get uncomfortably hot if you're running a 150 watt fan in 90F ambient temperature.

An hour and a half in on the AC discharge test, the battery indicator has 3 of the 5 bars which the manual says is "40% - 60% charged". If it's used 50% of its capacity in 1.5 hours, then 3+ hours total runtime is a ballpark figure. I'll have better numbers in a couple of hours.

At 2:25 in, the battery display is showing 2 of 5 bars (20% - 40% charged), the Kill-A-Watt has 80 watt hours and 113 volts. How soon will the E200 reach "low voltage cutoff"? That bar was there for about 10 minutes - that's probably should be interpreted as "power off in a very few minutes".

At 2:35 in, the battery display is showing 1 of 5 bars (0% - 20% charged) - think the previous bar might have disappeared faster than others? Not surprising, as the relatively inexpensive powerboxes are not known for extremely accurate "power remaining" displays.

At 2:40 in, the E200 shut off from low voltage. Looks like those bars would need to be watched minute-by-minute and the actual power used measured in real time so you can see how much actual "power" each bar represents. The fifth bar obviously does not represent the last 20% of capacity - more like the last 2% or so since it was 5 minutes out of 160 minutes. My guess of 2% was close: 5 / 160 = 3.1%. Best advice: know when the display is telling you "almost empty" with 2 bars left because 18.6% of rated load (37.3 watts) ate that last 3.1% in 5 minutes. If the load had been closer to the rated 200 watts, those 5 minutes would have only been 1 minute.

However, I'm very aware that the actual charge level may not be anywhere close to the level indicated on the unit's status display. The GoPower powerboxes had a display that looked like it should be "one bar for each 25%" but the reality was very far from that :-( I didn't trust the E200's indicator to be any more accurate because you would need a voltage monitor with VERY accurate measurement capability (accurate to at least 0.01 volt) and it should be calibrated to the battery pack it is to be used with - just don't think that happens below the $700 level and maybe not below the $1000 level.

My initial runtime estimate of 3:15 to 3:30 was somewhat optimistic. WHY? Partly that depends on how much "idle power" (the Brits say "self consumption") the inverter needs to keep itself running with no load (0.2 amp on the GoPower - no numbers from inside this box because I haven't yet taken out the screws). Plus there's power used to keep the display on and illuminated - on the GoPower, that was a rather high 0.083 amp. The easiest way to test that is to run the unit without a load until it shuts off. The faster way is to open the case and measure the current draw from the battery pack with a clip-on ammeter. Maybe another day?

Meanwhile, the output power was 37.3 watts * 2.67 hours = 99.59 watt hours of the E200's advertised 151wh. Some power was lost to inverter inefficiency. If it's 80% efficient, then 99.59 / 0.80 = 124.48wh. Adding display power usage similar to the GoPower gets 2.67 hours * 0.083 amp * 12 volts = 2.66wh which brings it up to 124.48 + 2.66 = 127.14wh so where's the other 151 - 127.14 = 23.86wh of battery capacity? The BMS in the E200 is set to shut it down at a battery voltage that will allow for several hundred charge/discharge cycles of the battery pack. On that basis, the low voltage shutoff is set to happen when the battery pack still has some capacity remaining. 23.86 / 151 = 15.8% which is a likely level of shutdown when you want to get more life out of the battery pack. So there you have the numbers for why the 37.3 watt light didn't run 151 / 37.3 = 4 hours and 3 minutes.

Feel a little better about "real world" power claims?

Still feel a bit cheated because you can't get the advertised capacities from any of these devices? - They're not lying any more than the automakers once did - that "300 horsepower" engine was measured on a dynamometer BUT the engine wasn't driving the alternator, the water pump, the radiator fan, the power steering pump or <whatever> - just the naked engine running flat out with all its needs provided externally. The powerbox advertising often has the same level of "truth" based on the capacity of the batteries and the inverter but not including those annoying little things such as inverter efficiency, powering the display and only using 85% of the battery capacity so it can take an almost full charge tomorrow.

Are you beginning to understand why I've spent 5+ years putting my solar backup system together and building a spreadsheet that tells me how long it can run the fridge or the freezer or the blower on the furnace or the big TV and why I've spent more than a year working out the $$$$ versus hours of backup improvement provided by an upgrade to LiFePO4 batteries?

---

The Kill-A-Watt says the recharge was 014kwh, or 14xwh (where x is less than 5, otherwise it would be 015kwh), so the battery's full 151wh capacity was not used. Recharging isn't 100% efficient so what efficiency did we get? The high end is 127 / 140 = 91% and the low end is 127 / 144 = 88%.

And that's all of this until next time - I'm stopping to let the tablet recharge and a half of pain med provide some relief and the better half took a fresh blueberry cobbler out of the oven about 10 minutes ago ;-)

---

See the SOC versus OCV chart below for an idea on the measurement precision needed for an accurate determination of a lithium ion cell's State of Charge (OCV is the "at rest" voltage, measured at least 12 hours after the most recent charge or discharge of the cell - and getting the SOC during discharge depends on what the temperature AND discharge level are so it's a much more complicated process).

remaining - - open
capacity - - - circuit volts

100%----------4.20V

90%-----------4.06V

80%-----------3.98V

70%-----------3.92V

60%-----------3.87V

50%-----------3.82V

40%-----------3.79V

30%-----------3.77V

20%-----------3.74V

10%-----------3.68V

5%------------3.45V

0%------------3.00V

From: www.keheng-battery.com/What-is-the-voltage-range-of-18650-lithium-battery-n.html

[feralferret]

"and the better half took a fresh blueberry cobbler out of the oven about 10 minutes ago."

Yep, the truth comes out. 

[papaof2]

We don't drive Beemers or Lexi but we do enjoy good food - especially home made from fresh ingredients ;-)

One of the highlights of her family reunion (the reunion was a victim of Covid) was the family that picked blackberries the morning of and brought a still warm cobbler made with freshly picked blackberries.

Always a good Southern spread with two or three types of potato salad, three or four plates of deviled eggs, etc.

[feralferret]

We have wild blackberries growing in the woods near our house. Unfortunately the weather is too dry for them to do well. The forecast is not looking favorable, either. My wife make a killer blackberry cobbler. Just add some vanilla ice cream and chow down!

[papaof2]

Yup! Same thing we do - blueberry cobbler with vanilla ice cream ;-)

[feralferret]

Dang it Papa, now you've gone and gotten me hungry!

[papaof2]

Grab the next flight south - we still have some cobbler - for a day or two ;-)

[feralferret]

I wish. At least I had a blackberry fried pie earlier today.

[papaof2]

FlashFish E200 power box - testing part 2

I did order the FlashFish E200 from Walmart: pawfiction.proboards.com/thread/2140/possibly-useful-small-powerbox

www.walmart.com/ip/Flashfish-200W-Portable-Power-Station-40800mAh-Solar-Generator-Portable-Generator-for-Camping-Travel-Emergency/593412624

I'm doing "typical user" testing, where they use the powerbox until it stops working

I started the DC power testing with the 5.5/2.1mm "12 volt" ports. It's a nominal "12 volts" because it comes from the battery pack through a load sensor (disconnects if the load is too high) and the output voltage is whatever the battery pack voltage is at that point in time. The battery pack is made in a 3s configuration (3 cells in series). The maximum voltage when freshly charged would be 3 * 4.2 = 12.6 volts. The minimum voltage is probably near 9 volts, as the minimum allowable discharge cutoff is 3.2 to 3.0 volts (9.6 to 9.0 volts).

1. The two 12 volt ports are listed as 10 amps combined. I'm using a 5.5/2.1 coaxial connector rated for 8 amps at 24 volts so the plastic insulator in the connector won't melt from overheating under load (not true for the 25 cent connectors from Banggood or AliExpress - this one is $1.34 each in lots of 10 from mouser.com). The maximum power I could get from one port was 7.6 amps. At that current the battery voltage under load was 11.3 volts with a load of 85.1 watts. The E200 heated up enough at that load for the internal cooling fan to run continuously. The fan's noise is noticeable but not excessively loud for the amount of cooling it's doing. (That's another "hidden" power user because the fan's X watts are part of the total battery power being used, it's just not being used where you want to use that power.) The highest outside case temperature was 86F at the fan's exhaust. This load is more than twice the AC power test load so I would expect the runtime to be less. Not half as long, because the battery is powering the load directly and there is no loss in power conversion as there was with the estimated 80% efficiency of the DC => AC inverter, unless the load sensor and its associated electronic switches are inefficient. The test load is powered by its own supply so the settings used for a test can be repeated again just by pressing the "Start" button. The test load shutoff voltage is at 8.9 volts which should be less than the low voltage shutdown setting of the battery pack's BMS.

As I'm typing this, the E200 power display is showing 2 of 5 bars which I think I described in the first post about testing as something like "power will go away soon" and it was down to 1 bar a couple of minutes later. My quick estimate would be a little less than 2 hours runtime at this load. The test ran for 1 hour and 14 minutes or just a tiny bit less than half as long as the AC power test. The power numbers were 9.4 amp hours (AH) and 105.36 watt hours (WH). That's 105.36 / 151 or 69.8% of the advertised 151wh capacity. Remember that we don't know how much power the fan uses - and it ran continuously. In the previous testing, it was estimated that 15.8% of the battery capacity was protected by the BMS for longer battery life. 15.8% of 151 is 23.86wh so we should use 151 - 23.86 = 127.14wh. 105.36 / 127.14 = 82.8% of the available battery capacity at this load. Remember that battery voltage drops with increasing load so a fixed low voltage cutoff point will trigger on less total discharge because the load drops the battery voltage more. A 7.6 amp discharge lasted 1:14. Discharging at half that, 3.8 amps, will run longer than 2:28 because there will be less voltage drop in the battery pack so it will stay above the low voltage cutoff point longer. A 1.9 amp load will run more than twice as long as the 3.8 amp load. It would be nice to know the actual power used by the fan but that requires removing 7 deeply imbedded screws in order to separate the case halves - you need a #1 or #2 Phillips screwdriver with a 3" or longer shaft. Time to put the E200 back on charge and I'll test other things when that charge finishes.

The Kill-A-Watt showed 014kwh for the recharge, so anywhere from 140wh to 144wh. You do the math this time ;-)


2. After a recharge of the E200's battery, I tested the QC outputs and the USB 5 volt output. These are tests for power delivered, not total capacity as that was tested with the "12 volt" discharge. Those are usually powered by DC => DC converters. For the USB 5 volt output, that's a buck converter (drops the voltage). I do have an adjustable load for the basic USB output so testing it should be simple. The QC outputs use a boost/buck converter that can take the battery's nominal 12 volts up to 19 volts (the "boost" for whatever voltage and current are negotiated by the device being charged) and the converter can also bring the voltage down (the buck) as low as 5 volts. Other than one Kindle Fire tablet, I'm not sure how many QC devices we have. I'll have to see if one of the USB power meters is new enough to support QC voltages. (None were, so the QC port was only tested at 5 volts.)

I'm using a second load tester on the USB and QC ports because the first one couldn't provide enough load - so much for test equipment that fits in the palm of your hand :-( I tried 23 watts (5 volts at 4.6) amps and the powerbox shut down the QC port in a couple of minutes. Then the QC port at 22.44 watts (4.4 amps at 5.1 volts) and 11 minutes to shutdown. Trying again at 21.5 watts (4.3 amps at 5.0 volts). I turned that off after 23 minutes because that's more than twice as long as any previous load ran. Yes, it takes a while to do this testing. As long as the tester goes "Beep!" at the end of the test, I can be reading or whatever, as long as I'm in the same room so I don't miss that "Beep!"

Now for the basic USB port which is listed as 2.4 amps. I'll start with a higher load (3.1 amps) and see how well it does with that. It was happy so I took it up to 4.4 amps - the same 21 watts that one QC port delivered (the other QC port shutdown after about a minute at the same load). After some internal heating during testing, the USB port's output worked at 4.1 amps but only for 13 minutes. Back to try 4 amps - still above the rated 2.4 amps but the E200 can provide that much power - I stopped the load test after 23 minutes. I need to make a simple chart of the E200's "claimed" versus "measured" output power levels.

However, I'm doing this testing in conditioned space - the thermostat says the temperature at chest level is 76F (one side effect of the current Rx pain med is sweating without exerting effort so staying cool is difficult). If you're trying to recharge your phone or Bluetooth speaker at the beach, in the sun, the E200 will already be hot so it probably won't be able to deliver these power levels continuously. No, I don't plan to sit outside next Thursday and re-run the tests when the forecast afternoon high is 92F :-) The temperature in which electronic gear will be used is important because batteries have minimum and maximum temperatures at which it is safe to charge and discharge them. The E200 is rated for -20C to 40C or -4F to 104F. If the E200's black case is sitting in the sun at 98F, how hot will it be inside even before you turn the power switch on? Do you think that temperature might affect how long the E200 will run and how much power it can deliver?

===============

There is some sun in next week's forecast so I might be able to test a little solar charging, probably with two 20 watt panels for 40 watts total (comparable to the E200's charger at 45 watts). I also have three 15 watt panels but the difference between 40 watts and 45 watts probably isn't worth the effort of configuring two different solar setups :-( The 100 watt panels are bigger than any FlashFish suggests so I'd only use one of those on a cloudy day.

That testing - if it happens - will be posted as part 3.

If the local pharmacy can get my newly prescribed continuous release chronic pain med (Butrans patch) to me Monday, I'll start the month trial of that med. I have high hopes for a pain med that should let me wake up when I'm adequately rested, not because I'm hurting too much to stay asleep. We shall see. The "Cautions" handout for that Rx med is available online and is 31 pages long (fact!). As with any opoid pain med, if the side effects don't hospitalize or kill you, about 60% of the people who've tried it find that it works for them :-(

[feralferret]

Looks like some very thorough testing that you are performing.

No, I don't plan to sit outside next Thursday and re-run the tests when the forecast afternoon high is 92F :-)

We were 95 with a heat index of 105 today.  Thursday is supposed to 100 actual here, with 100+ heat index.  My poor garden could really use some rain and more moderate temperatures.

[papaof2]

I've been curious about almost everything since I was a kid. My mother told the story over and over of me getting an electric train the Christmas I was six. The story: I took the engine apart to see what made it work - and it still ran after I put it back together.

The nice thing about of a lot of electronic testing is that there are now robots to help with it ;-) But there are sometimes simple answers to what seems a difficult problem: How will I know how long the inverter on the backup power system can run with that load? You set an ancient electric clock with hands to 12:00:00 and plug it in on the inverter's output. When the clock stops, You have the run time in hours, minutes and seconds.

For DC power testing, I set up the active load for the current I want it to draw and the low voltage cutoff I want it to use. It runs until cutoff and then it goes "Beep!" to alert me that it's finished. It then displays the test conditions and the test results: XX amp hours over MM minutes or HH:MM hours and minutes. While I'm waiting for the tests to complete, I write up what I'm doing and what the progress of the testing is - including the things that are just out of limits "Ran 11 minutes and shut down".

Quite often, I put together a spreadsheet so I can easily present the results to anyone else who's interested. It's easier for most people to read something with columns of "Volts", "Amps", "Watts" and "Minutes" than to pick those things out of a text description and make sense of them.

When I worked in the region headquarters "skunkworks" at AT&T, one of my co-workers gave me the the nickname "thewiz" and that was nearly always my user ID when they took on a new system where the people who maintained it had told the users "That can't be done" about some bit of processing info they wanted to collect. One group needed date/time info on their process of receiving requests for new circuits via email and getting that request processed and out to the techs who did the work. The group's manager had been asking for that info for a couple of years and had been told repeatedly "That can't be done". Eventually my boss said "See if you can get this guy off my back" and I looked into what he wanted and what the system had to work with. The original designers had apparently considered the need for that type of process info as EVERY action was recorded in the database with date, time, and user ID.
I put together an ugly prototype using Excel and its VBA programming language so it could talk to the remote mini-computer - not a pretty or highly organized screen, just pieces added as I figured out how to collect and process that bit of info but every row or column was identified. The other group's manager saw the prototype and his reaction was "I want that on my desk. Today!"
He was happy, my boss was happy and I'd just worked another miracle without spending a cent for hardware or software.

I probably enjoyed that job more than any other job I had - guess my Sherlock Holmes gene was being put to use ;-)

[papaof2]

Final part of testing.

The USB LED-on-a-stick light that comes with the E200 draws 0.1amp at 5 volts. It provides enough light to be able to walk through a room if the light is aimed up at the ceiling. The light's power draw is 5 * 0.1 = 0.5 watt, so possibly not much more than the display on the E200. If we estimate that the light plus the display draw 1 watt and that the 5 volt buck DC=>DC converter is 90% efficient then the load on the battery pack is 1 / 0.9 = 1.11 watt. From the initial testing, it was estimated the battery pack can deliver 127 watt hours. 127 / 1.11 = 114.4 hours run time powering just that LED. That's 4.7 days of continuous light or 9.4 days of 12 hours light per day or 14.3 days of 8 hours light per day. That's light for power out, tree(s) down and trapped in the basement for 4.7 days or a nightlight for the kids for 2 weeks.

No, I haven't run that load to shutdown so these are all optimistic estimates ;-)

I haven't yet tested the maximum AC load the E200 can handle (rated at 200 watts). I'll do that with a 300 watt halogen lamp with a dimmer and watch the load on a Kill-A-Watt as I bring it up from the 100 or so watts that it takes to get that bulb going and then see how much power we get from the E200 as I s-l-o-w-l-y increase the brightness of the bulb (and the watts used).

The pain is my back is sensitive to some types of weather, particularly heavy rain and thunderstorms (confirmed in discussions with the surgeon's PA) so I'll spend some time recovering from today's thunderstorms before I do much else :-( At least I can sit and think about things that need to be done and ways of doing them.

===

More AC testing -

The E200 could NOT get the halogen bulb hot enough to light it - the AC voltage on the Kill-A-Watt dropped to just over 80 volts and then the E200's inverter shutdown. So let's try some other ugly loads (for a small inverter) but a bit smaller.

A 100 watt incandescent bulb is fine. Adding a 40 watt incandescent bulb when the 100 watt bulb is ON is fine. However (lots of "However" in much of my testing), having the 40 watt bulb ON and then adding the 100 watt bulb drops the inverter's output voltage so much that the 40 watt bulb goes dark and then both bulbs come on. Don't plan to use the E200 for things that have a high starting/inrush current - that might also include your big flat-screen TV. Removing the load may not reset the inverter and get it producing power again. You'll need to turn off the "AC Power" switch and turn it back on again.

When the E200's battery is again fully charged, I'll try connecting the 90 watt Dell power supply (it has a pretty hefty startup pulse when plugged in - from the capacitors charging) and then connecting that supply to an E6420 with a partially (45%) discharged battery and see if the E200 can manage the 50 watts or so that supply will put into the laptop's battery. That's a semi-realistic example except that the typical user would likely run the laptop until it shuts down from a low battery and the charging power would be even higher. I also have a DC=>DC converter for charging / running a laptop from a "12 volt" mobile power source. I'll only leave the AC power supply connected long enough that I'm confident it will work (20 minutes or so) and then switch to mobile power. That will also get 20 minutes or so, as that's been the "It will keep working from here" time on other tests.

The 90 watt laptop power supply test:

Plugging the power supply into the E200 dropped the voltage on the Kill-A-Watt to 86 volts but it slowly recovered back to 114 volts. Plugging the power supply's output into the laptop's charge port dropped the voltage from the inverter to 96 volts as the laptop put 49.8 watts into the battery but that didn't last long - the E200 shutdown the inverter: "AC Output" on the display was flashing in a couple of minutes. That shutdown does NOT clear when the load is removed - the "AC Power" switch must be cycled. So much for powering just any laptop from the E200 regardless of their advertising. I should also test on a less powerful laptop that uses a 65 watt power supply for comparison.

The 65 watt laptop power supply test:

Plugging the smaller power supply into the E200 only caused the voltage to drop a volt or so. Plugging the power supply output into the Dell D630 didn't get a flicker in the voltage and the laptop's battery was being charged at 23 watts.

Part of the problem with the laptop power supply and the wall wart chargers is that many of them use capacitive voltage droppers - not transformers - to get the AC voltage down to a DC voltage that's appropriate for laptop that's to be powered. It greatly decreases the cost of the power supply because they can be run on "85 to 240 volts AC" so the power supply is universal for the world instead of needing different supplies for different voltages (120 US/Canada, 100 Japan, 220/240 Europe/UK/AU/NZ, etc). Those capacitive droppers also cause problems for larger power sources. I've posted a picture of the AC waveform from our local power co-op and the sharp corners where there should be smooth curves are a result of the capacitive voltage droppers that are in use in many devices. No surprise that a small "200 watt" inverter has problems with a load that causes that type of waveform distortion. However, if you limit your device charging to only using the USB, QC and "12 volt" ports you won't have a problem.

======

I'll try it the "12 volt" way when I feel like making another 32 step round trip to the basement as I think that's where the Belkin DC=>DC adapter for the Dells is currently stored - probably near the laptop that monitors the solar system.

======

I may also test the E200's ability to power a 50" plasma TV because that TV is a high-inrush device. We shall see when I'm recovered enough from the weather-induced pain to do more. However, I think that TV's power cord is buried in the rat's nest of cables of power and A/V cables in the equipment cabinet: VCR, DVD recorder/player, BluRay player, AM/FM/CD/cassette/alternate TV audio system. Maybe I'll just try powering the 19" LCD TV across from the treadmill.

Fortunately, the TV is one device with a grounded cord so there were a limited number of options on the outlet strip fed by the 810 watt pure sine wave UPS ;-) The third of four choices was the right one. I was a bit surprised when the TV actually turned on - it uses a capacitive-dropper power supply for some serious power. However, it did turn on, the Kill-A-Watt went to 167 watts, then 196 watts, then 212 watts briefly before dropping down to 157 watts. The plasma screen uses more power as the displayed image gets brighter so a scene of dark green trees needs less power than a sunny sky. Based on the numbers in the very short test (less than two minutes), I don't think the E200 could power the plasma TV for long - too many chances for a long bright scene - even an ad for snow skiing could continuously exceed the rated 200 watts. Good to know what the E200 can or can't and what it might or might not be able to do. If I want to power a TV with the E200, it will be the 19" LCD TV that lives across from the treadmill in the basement, although I'm more likely to use the E200 to charge the 7" HDTV that lives in the basement.

======

Why am I bothering with all this testing?
1. I'm curious about what the E200 I have can actually do. The more uses I can find for it, the better buy it becomes ;-)
2. If someone might buy an E200 based on my comments, I have a responsibility to let that person know the bad as well as the good about the device. Some people might know that incandescent and halogen bulbs aren't friendly to small inverters but others may not know. Just consider me the Consumer Reports for cCc (cheap Chinese crap ;-)

Neither of the pure sine wave inverters (500 watt, 2000 watt) from reliablepower on eBay (probably now the WZRELB brand from the cases) have a problem with the 300 watt halogen lamp or its dimmer. However, even the largest UPS units (1000 watts) with modified sine wave output can't drive the halogen lamp and its dimmer correctly. The dimmer expects a sine wave and the electronics of the dimmer will NOT work with modified sine wave input.
How many people know that? Would those who don't know the difference between modified and pure sine wave fault the source of power (modified sine wave device) or the lamp? If the pure sine wave device isn't big enough (such as the 200 watt pure sine wave inverter in the E200), it can't drive the dimmer either. If a user has both power sources, will he/she say it's the lamp or the power source? I should connect a scope to the output of the E200 and then connect the halogen lamp with dimmer and see what happens to the AC waveform.

[papaof2]

The FlashFish E200 is available as a refurb from www.flashfishtech.com/products/flashfish-e200-power-station?variant=44099450699944 for $79.99. Includes tax and free 3-5 day shipping. That's 1/3 off the $117.99 + tax so it's an even better deal if you can use it.

Working on the low power solar charging today.

[papaof2]

Looks like they're competing with Prime Days: The FlashFish E200 and the 50 watt folding solar panel for $221.09 and free shipping.
www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804593615983.html

Just need to check their odd-hour emails for the current deals...

[papaof2]

Finally got out to do some limited testing of solar charging on the FlashFish E200. I seem to have picked the worst hour in a day of "Partly cloudy" but I did do a little testing with a 20 watt panel.

At best, the 20 watt panel delivered 1.07 amp at 15.32 volts for 16.39 watts at 3PM. When the battery pack was charged, the BMS disconnected the battery pack from the charge input port and the current went to zero. After a few minutes, the BMS was again allowing the battery pack to charge but for a very short interval. Then disconnect and repeat. Typical for a slow PWM controller holding at the battery's "Hold here" voltage.

Not much info but the solar port does work with a solar panel as small as 20 watts. My earlier suggestion of providing an older friend or family member with "always ready" backup power by getting them something like the E200 and putting a small solar panel in a sunny window to keep that device charged is valid. The powerbox would be topped off every sunny day and be ready for a providing a little light and charging phones whenever needed.

[papaof2]

FlashFish E200 power box - follow up

The 12 volt, 10 amp outputs share a common internal power limiter as the most power that can be drawn is 7.6 amps, whether from one port or from both ports combined. I ran two sets of tests, using two adjustable loads set to different values. First with Port 2 at 4 amps and Port 1 at 3.5 amps, then 3.6 amps and the E200 shutdown when I took the Port 1 load to 3.7 amps. Then with Port 2 at 3 amps and various loads starting at 4.5 amps on Port 1. One tester can be adjusted in steps of 10ma (0.01amp) so that was taken up from 4.5 amps 0.01 amp at a time - and the E200 shutdown at 7.61 amps. The original test of 7.6 amps for one port is the maximum value for both ports combined. Either the power protection circuitry is not accurate or the E200 simply wasn't properly designed to deliver 10 amps from the "12 volt" ports.

It's all fixable (if you can find the right replacement chips), but this is something most people expect the maker to get right when they've been building powerbanks for a long time and this is just "a big powerbank".

I brought up a 4 amp/40 amp clamp-on ammeter and a Phillips screwdriver that should be long enough and skinny enough to remove the screws holding the E200 case together. Not sure if I'll get to it tonight; interrupted too many times today "for just a minute". Now I'm tired and just about ready for yet another Rx pain med, so probably not a good time to start taking a case of lithium-ion batteries apart. Maybe tomorrow.

[feralferret]

"Now I'm tired and just about ready for yet another Rx pain med, so probably not a good time to start taking a case of lithium-ion batteries apart. Maybe tomorrow."

Likely a wise decision.

[papaof2]

As of this posting, Walmart has the FlashFish E200 for $79.99. Might be something to put near a window and add an inexpensive ebay 20 watt solar panel and just forget about the FlashFish until the power goes out. If not for you, perhaps for an older family member or friend?

www.walmart.com/ip/Flashfish-200W-Portable-Power-Station-40800mAh-Solar-Generator-Portable-Generator-for-Camping-Travel-Emergency/593412624

See the previous posts for the pros and cons before you buy it.

[papaof2]

Still the same price from Walmart and FlashFish. The FlashFish web page claims they've sold 120,000+ of them worldwide.

If it meets your needs, it's a lot of usefulness in a small and relatively light package.