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Post by biggkidd on Oct 16, 2017 11:35:44 GMT -6
Well we got that 90 F250 4x4 super cab long bed saturday. It has a bad transmission and needs loads of body work. Good news is the Ford reman crate engine with 12,000 miles and all the paperwork to prove it. It was quite the drive and towing it back over 100 miles with my 88 F150 was nerve wracking to say the least. Having both power and air compressor on board saved the day as we had a flat on the trailer. Had to remove the tire and patch it from the inside. I need to get some more spare tires ASAP. Not sure what we ran over but to go through a 12 ply tire it was stout!
So while we were waiting on them to do the timbering we cleared a small space for a garden. I have always had great gardens no matter where I've been. Until I moved here that is! Pulling trees one month and planting seeds the next just plain doesn't work. The soil is to barren no nutrients or organic matter to speak of and to acidic. Since then we have been working to improve the ground by adding large amounts of organic matter. Mostly in the form of wood chips from a local tree service. It's a slow process to build good soil. If there were horse , chicken or cattle farms close by I'd be hauling manure too. I also dug some trenches and the local hunters are dumping carcasses there. Anything we can do to improve the soil without spending to do it is being done. Lime can be gotten free from brick manufacturers. Problem there is it comes in 1500 pound bags. It's also powdered and somewhat hard to deal with. You can not let it get damp before spreading or it may as well be solid rock. We have yet to have a decent garden here but we will one day. Best advice I could give anyone is never give up! Second best would be to keep anything with a possible future use. They got the timber cut and we got the addition built. It's done in such a way that the old camper can be pulled out at a later date. Which we did a couple years later and closed in that room. My grandfather left me a much newer 33 ft Terry camper when he passed away. We pulled that behind the house and leveled it up and built a short hall in between. We just use it mainly for the kitchen and bath. I hope to move it out and add on again in the next year or so. A camper is not a good place for living unless the weather is very mild. Otherwise you spend a lot of time freezing or sweating.
Remember the barrel stove that heated so well we thought the camper was on fire? Well it just wasn't enough for the camper and 2) 12x24 rooms. So looking at my junk piles I came up with a much larger version. At the time I was also interested in steam power. So I scrounged around and got a lot of parts together. Including an old 275 gallon heating oil tank. A couple old cast iron bathtubs and quite a few old out of date 20lb propane tanks. Along with a couple 2 cylinder air compressor pumps. I tied four of the propane tanks together with piping. Made a support for them in one of the tubs. Which I then turned upside down on another tub. I cut a square opening in the front of the bottom tub and framed in a door. Then welded the tubs together after doing a pressure test on the 4 welded together propane tanks. Once all this was done along with making a chimney hole I wrapped the whole shooting match in the 275 gallon oil tank. This was all set inside a cinder block room dug in to the hill side. A 275 gallon plastic tote was put on top and filled with water. Inside the tote was placed a 50 or 60 foot coil of copper pipe. The pipe acted as our hot water heater for several years. I have seen the water in that tote boil so hard the tote was shaking around kind of dancing. Any idea how much heat it tanks to boil 275 gallons of water? Me either other than a lot. The oil drum had the same sort of heat exchange unit on top as the barrel stove did. It worked as well too. But boy did it eat one heck of a lot of wood. Somewhere between 12 and 15 cords in an average year and one year well over 20!
Now I mentioned steam power. (If anyone has ideas in this direction DON'T without proper research) I had no idea at the time just how dangerous steam could be. To give an idea one gallon of water can flash into over 1500 gallons of steam in less than one second! That's a recipe for disaster if ever there was one. We are talking MAJOR EXPLOSION!!!! I got vary lucky and never had an issue with my tanks or welds or anything. I made my little 2 cylinder steam engine using a wood splitter valve for the engine valve. This was the smartest thing I did while fooling with steam. I tried many others in the couple years I fooled with it none worked as well. Those propane tanks that were inside the burn chamber of the heater were my pressure vessels. I made 150 psi of steam on a fairly regular basis. The little 2 cylinder air compressor pumps were put together. One was sort of sealed to keep oil in and water / steam out. This was the lower unit with the crank shaft. The upper unit had the second set of rods and pistons attached to the first. What I did was drill and tap holes in the top of the pistons and bolted the rods on top. These rods had their pistons on the top of them still. The second block was attached so these pistons ran inside it. On top it had that wood splitter valve which controlled the steam coming and going through the engine. This insane little setup actually worked. We were able to make nearly 30 amps @ 12V! I was hoping for a hundred. My chicken scratch boiler wasn't able to keep up with demand though. I did however learn several valuable lessons. 1) it can be done. 2) Since we can still buy gas it's a terrible waste of my time. It takes far to much care and feeding to be sensible for now. 3) Dumb luck kept me from blowing up my family and I! 4) If the brown stinky stuff hits I can do a better SAFER job of it in short order if needed.
I will say getting power, heat, and hot water from every stick of wood burned is noteworthy! Once again I do not recommend anyone try steam power without due diligence. I foolishly never did any research before trying it. I just threw together scrap and created a working steam engine. It was after I did do some research trying to improve what I had when I found out just how lucky I was. It's entirely possible that thing could have blown my whole house off the face of the earth. I do have 99% of the parts to build a safe version if ever needed. I really hope it never comes to that. A much better and safer boiler is the key.
( There are a couple videos on YOUTube of the steam engine running if anybody wants to look them up)
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Post by biggkidd on Oct 16, 2017 12:18:56 GMT -6
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Post by crice118 on Oct 16, 2017 13:23:04 GMT -6
did you do any research into old steam engines and while you were at it did you do any distillation of liquids for medicinal purposes all the copper coiled and not a drop to spare
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Post by papaof2 on Oct 16, 2017 13:30:52 GMT -6
Glad that you had an angel watching over you until you learned more! Thanks for sharing what you've learned. Steam power is nearly unstoppable - there's a tractor pull video on youtube where someone is using an old steam "traction engine" with the typical sliding weight sled and the steam engine pulls the sled to the end of the weight's travel - and just keeps going. The steam engine probably weighs twice what the sled does so it's not a serious load for the engine. The steam cylinder spins a large flywheel that is geared WAY down and the torque at the axle has to be off the scale compared to typical gas/diesel tractors. Your steam engine would need a heavier belt but it could drive a 10" table saw (type that uses a belt between the motor and the blade). That would work for many types of home and farm construction. Without doing some power tests (how much power does the alternator deliver to a discharged battery and convert the watts to horsepower) I don't know if the engine delivers enough power to drive a small sawmill blade (20" or so). It's a given that you won't get more than a few HP transferred with a single narrow V-belt. I picked up a blade edger (freebie on Craig's List) that has an engine of maybe 3HP but uses dual pulleys and V-belts to drive the 9" blade (typical arrangement uses just one belt). 40 psi is a relatively safe pressure (well below the rating of the propane tanks) and it seems to be running well in the video. Probably need to know how much power was being produced at each pressure and maybe the RPM of the alternator (depending on the model, maximum power is produced between 3000 and 5000 rpm). Some rock wool insulation might cut down the wood usage by keeping the heat within the firebox and boiler. If you do deeper research in the future, you may find a reflective tachometer (no touch) is useful for determining the actual speed of the steam pulley and the alternator pulley. A piece of reflective tape (or even a small square of white paper) will make a decent target. Even this one for about $13 www.banggood.com/Wholesale-DANIU-DT2234C-Digital-Laser-RPM-Tachometer-Non-Contact-Measurement-Tool-p-20463.html?rmmds=searchwould be adequate. To determine the output, an inline meter that reads volts, amps, watts, amp hours and watt hours is ideal. There's a generic 100 amp 60 volt meter that's under $12 here us.banggood.com/Wholesale-Warehouse-60V-100A-Digital-LCD-Display-Voltage-Current-Power-Battery-Analyze-wp-Usa-919179.html?rmmds=myorderand it's about $16 from Ebay. Two wires for input (from alternator); two wires for output (to battery). I wouldn't recommend leaving the unit inline at high currents but the wiring should be adequate for 50 amps continuous. Some of the vendors claim fairly high accuracy but I'd say the typical meter is within 5% which is fine for what you you want to know - which pulley ratio and what pressure give the most output? Over time I've acquired a lot of test equipment, some of it paid for by the people who hired me to make something for them. Some of the equipment is higher end (Tektronix scope. Fluke voltmeter) but some of it is simply adequate for the purpose (I have the tachometer and volt, amp, watt meter listed above because both are useful within their limits). If I need more accurate volt or amp readings, I have better equipment - but most of it would be affected by a drop to a concrete driveway - that's not as likely with the metal-cased $12 device. I also have a plastic-cased, battery-powered scope for low frequency use checking inverters and the like associated with my exploration of solar power. That scope was a $20 kit. It's ideal for the purpose as the plastic case has everything insulated and battery power means that I can check mains AC voltages without worrying about using an AC powered instrument that's grounded.
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Post by biggkidd on Oct 17, 2017 6:23:56 GMT -6
Papa I used a 60 amp inline gauge like they use to sell for hot rods. 28 amps is about the most I saw. Wasn't really turning the alternator fast enough. Keeping enough steam pressure was the problem. Since then I have learned a little more. There is no doubt in my mind I could build another boiler that would have no trouble keeping 100 psi while driving that or a similar engine.
Back then I was using a hot water heater blow off valve. I have an actual steam valve on hand now. Also have a sight glass for keeping the proper amount of water in the boiler. All this stuff is sitting around just in case! Were I to do it again I would use 2 log splitter valves and put steam on both sides of the pistons. Effectively doubling my power from the same engine.
Cutter you are not the first to ask about making beverages from all that copper. I have never tried that I'm not much of a drinker.
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Post by crice118 on Oct 17, 2017 7:05:42 GMT -6
though it was a nod to "shine", you can distill ethanol and you can also distill essential oils for medicinal and culinary purposes and carriers (I believe I have the terminology right) for the distilled flowers, or plant part, with your knowledge of steam and mechanical to fashion the coils, you could distill carriers for those who don't know how or distill the essential oils also, during a time no medicines are available then you could take care of you and your family with herbal remedies cut remember you cannot "prescribe" anything but you can tell others what you use it for, just don't tell someone what "they" might take for something
since you can get methane from a methane digester and people in third world countries use that to cook by, was wondering if that could be distilled and stored for use in cooler weather some or as a fuel?
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Post by papaof2 on Oct 17, 2017 11:42:22 GMT -6
Papa I used a 60 amp inline gauge like they use to sell for hot rods. 28 amps is about the most I saw. Wasn't really turning the alternator fast enough. Keeping enough steam pressure was the problem. Since then I have learned a little more. There is no doubt in my mind I could build another boiler that would have no trouble keeping 100 psi while driving that or a similar engine. Back then I was using a hot water heater blow off valve. I have an actual steam valve on hand now. Also have a sight glass for keeping the proper amount of water in the boiler. All this stuff is sitting around just in case! Were I to do it again I would use 2 log splitter valves and put steam on both sides of the pistons. Effectively doubling my power from the same engine. Cutter you are not the first to ask about making beverages from all that copper. I have never tried that I'm not much of a drinker. If the alternator was delivering 14.4 volts (maximum recommended charge voltage for a lead-acid battery) at 25 amps, you had 14.4 * 25 = 360 watts output. There are 746 watts to the horsepower, so the alternator was delivering 360 / 746 = 0.48 or almost 1/2 HP. Those alternators are maybe 70 % efficient, so 0.46 / 0.7 = 0.69 HP or a little over 2/3 HP being delivered at the alternator end of the V-belt. That's more than adequate for the 10" table saw I mentioned previously and remember that steam engines do not lose torque when they slow down so it might cut better than with an electric motor. A double acting steam cylinder would produce twice the HP so add a flywheel to handle the load between power strokes and try that small sawmill (needs a MUCH heavier belt). Ethanol is not only drinkable - it can be used as fuel. Much gasoline is 10-15% ethanol and an E-85 engine can handle more than that. Small gas engines can be adapted to run on ethanol (just remember to replace any rubber bits with something not affected by ethanol) and there are examples on youtube. I think you could be the local go-to person in a disaster/SHTF situation. Yes, Judge Thompson. I can adapt your generator to run on ethanol for $10 face value junk silver (or whatever in food or other essentials). My ethanol is $1 silver per gallon (or other essentials)" "Yes, Mrs. Dowdy. My wife does have echinacea tea and elderberry tea if you think those might help you. She generally trades for food items so you should ask what today's specials are."
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Post by biggkidd on Oct 17, 2017 12:12:34 GMT -6
Papa I truly hope noone finds us in a SHTF! We are two miles off pavement. Our "road" is a hundred plus year old CCC logging road. Once we are straight then I would venture out and see who we could help.
I can see where steam engines could run lots of useful devices. When I built it I was trying hard not to buy anything and only use parts from my scrap piles. Part of the idea was to build something anyone could copy with junk found laying around. Granted not everyone can weld or has access to a welder.
Part of the fun of that project was finding things that worked while not spending cash on it.
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Post by papaof2 on Oct 17, 2017 16:35:39 GMT -6
I'm not looking forward to a disaster/SHTF situation, but it seems as reasonable to be prepared for a number of those things as it does to pay extra for the gasoline required to lug a spare tire around in my vehicle - and the manufacturers provide that (A group of secret preppers?) Even better if there's someone like you who can make a silk purse (or at least a leather one) out of a sow's ear. When power has been off for 30 days, most people would be happy to have limited power available even if it wasn't silent or pretty (homebrew steam or ethanol engine). When you don't have anything, something that works is a very good thing. Probably should stock up on the rubber vent pipe boots that a 2 liter bottle will fit in snugly and a little chlorine bleach to make some 50 watt equivalent daytime solar lights. Step-by-step www.instructables.com/id/How-to-build-a-SOLAR-BOTTLE-BULB/youtube www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcW3dL0mlYo
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Post by biggkidd on Oct 17, 2017 18:27:30 GMT -6
I like the 2 liter bottle idea! THANKS
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Post by papaof2 on Oct 17, 2017 18:37:47 GMT -6
Some of the vent boots will also fit 1 liter bottles for a slightly smaller light or one that doesn't come down as far from the roof (sheds, etc).
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Post by biggkidd on Oct 17, 2017 18:52:27 GMT -6
I have to wonder how long pop bottle plastic will last left in the sun. Like so many things the suns rays will degrade it over time.
Pepsi bottles are noticeably thicker and heavier than coke bottles. I prefer coke of course.
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Post by papaof2 on Oct 17, 2017 21:24:22 GMT -6
I think the answer on "how long" will need to be determined where you are - but the bottles are plentiful and cheap. Florida or Arizona would have more sun than Tennessee which has more sun than Iowa. Set up lights using a Coke bottle and a Pepsi bottle and see how long each lasts. Just do it where a bottle that splits and leaks will do not harm. I can say that a Coke bottle of tap water with a little Clorox lasts OK inside as I've had one sitting in the basement for about 2 years.
I haven't put one in the lawn equipment shed as it's under too many trees and gets a few (usually small) limbs on it each year. This year was the exception as an estimated 20 foot limb came down and landed across the length of the 16 foot shed. The limb length is estimated because it broke into 4 or 5 pieces when it hit the shed. The impact broke 2 rafters and cracked another one but the roof held. I jacked those 2x4's back in place and sistered them with another 2x4 using construction adhesive and 2 1/2 inch screws. Then I had to drive down the sheathing nails that were pulled loose when the limb hit the roof and the OSB gave several inches.
Obviously, freezing temperatures would require antifreeze which would change the color of the light.
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Post by biggkidd on Oct 20, 2017 7:03:07 GMT -6
Might be a bit like 2 weeks before I write more here. I am closing my shop or moving it home and downsizing. So going to be a very busy few weeks coming up for me. I have to build some sort of weatherproof storage for most of this stuff too. I don't have a shop or garage at home. That money thing you know. I did recently get 4 shopping cart covers from an out of business grocery. Just roofs and legs 7 ft x 35 ft so I have a little to work with anyway. lol
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Post by papaof2 on Oct 20, 2017 14:48:58 GMT -6
The shopping cart stalls are a good starting point for enclosed storage as 7x35 is a 245 sq ft footprint for each one or 960 sq ft total (not all useful as it includes the size of the support structure). Considering that it was for parking lot use where you are, the roof support should be adequate for any snow you might get. You'll probably want to raise it off the ground (or build a raised floor) to keep stored items off clean and dry. I'll assume that the stalls can be assembled in shorter sections as a long, narrow space is more hallway than storage. Having multiple 7x10 "rooms" (or whatever it breaks down to) would probably be more useful for storage and would allow having doors on one or both "ends" as needed for access to what's inside - or perhaps just for ventilation in the summer. If you can use the side supports for more than one roof you could have a series of "tractor stalls" that share side walls, with the ends open or closed as appropriate for what's being stored there. This might be a place for the coke bottle lights so you would have some daytime lighting inside each enclosed space. These aren't cheap with Home Depot asking $19 for a 3 or 4 inch boot but the boots last a long time and the replacement bottles are free. If you were within easy driving distance (don't post, only put identifiable information in a PM), a basic solar lighting system (panel, controller, battery, LED lights, switches, fuse panel for your 900 (usable) sq ft or space could be done for $200 - $250 with all new parts. If you can find a cheap/free source of the wind-up wall switch timers (often used on bathroom fans and sometimes lights) you can have lighting that never gets left on to run down the battery. The 30 minute or 1 hour timers are probably adequate for getting things out of storage but you'd need longer for an area you work in (and need bigger battery(ies) and possibly more solar panels - I have a spreadsheet that covers the details if you want to play with how much solar power to do what and for how long). It's in Excel 2003 so it can be opened by any of the free office software (Open Office, etc). It's strictly for DC power to lights, radio, etc. www.jecarter.us/files/My-12-Volt-Solar-Generator.xlsIf you want a spreadsheet for working out a larger system with an inverter for AC power for fridge, small power tools, etc, then this spreadsheet covers that - but it is more complex. www.jecarter.us/files/My-Solar-Generator.xlsBoth spreadsheets have pages for the "rated" power of the solar panels (STC rating are only met under factory test conditions, not in the real world) and for the NOCT rating (about 75% of the STC power and what I've seen in the testing I've done at my location - same latitude as Atlanta and Grenada, MS).
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Post by biggkidd on Oct 20, 2017 15:33:11 GMT -6
Papa you are just full of good info. As luck would have it the roof panels are white plastic and let plenty of light through. Lucky me. Working on an idea to join several of the units together to make a larger covered space. Probably wont get to that until next week.
Did some wheeling and dealing today traded a 77 Sears Suburban garden tractor and a few odds and ends for a new set of 285/75-16 Maxxis mud grip tires for one of the F250's. So that's one thing off the needed list and one less thing that needs covered storage space. Happy camper I am. Now I need to order lugnuts and center caps. I had bought the wheels used a few weeks ago.
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Post by papaof2 on Oct 20, 2017 21:36:49 GMT -6
Isn't that Sears Suburban garden tractor old enough to be a collector's item and you could swap it for the tires, valves, mounting, paint the truck and a steak dinner? ;-)
Seriously, if you had time to piece part it out and put it on Ebay, you might have done even better. Do a search on Ebay for "Sears Suburban garden tractor" and see how much just the headlights are going for.
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Post by biggkidd on Oct 21, 2017 6:48:01 GMT -6
Yes Papa it was a collectors item. It was a 77 model with a power lift. 10hp briggs that was actually cast iron. The guy I traded with has the time money and temperament to do it right and keep it undercover. I gave him a new set of headlights with it along with a bunch of other parts I had collected up. I had lost interest to many projects and to little money. I still have a Craftsman III garden tractor it's a 87 and a bit more capable with 18hp. Along with my go to tractor which is 35hp diesel and 4x4. I came out okay on the trade and so did he which is how it should be. I needed the tires more right now to be able to get in and out of here this winter in bad weather. Part of it was also the fact I didn't want to see it sitting out in the weather again.
Need to go get busy adding to a deck to make a floor for part of one of those cart covers. It came off a building I took down for my neighbor some years ago. Now it'll be a floor for a storage area when I get done. I never throw anything away that might have potential use. One of the reasons my place looks like Sanford and Sons lot! lol
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Post by crice118 on Oct 21, 2017 10:27:17 GMT -6
count yourself fortunate, bought my 5.5 acres 2 and a half years ago and nothing but complaints as my "neighbors" want it to remain a mowed low fertility pasture instead of my using permaculture and sustainable agricultural practices to increase fertility and they want it kept like the former owner kept it, you should have seen it this fall all types of perennial wild flowers and plants just loaded with different types pollinators, bees, wasps, butterflies, etc and boy was the neighbors mad and making nuisance calls because of all the "weeds" growing on my property on a dead end road 13 miles from town in A1 agricultural in a rural area, wish I could have room for all the useful stuff I could get for free, they even complaining about my blue 55 gal water barrels (no water on the place)
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Post by papaof2 on Oct 21, 2017 12:08:11 GMT -6
crice118, when they complain again, tell them that you'd be OK with them paying for a 6 or 8 foot wood "privacy" fence so they won't have to look at what you're growing. Be sure to have estimates from the 3 best fencing companies in the area to show them samples with prices. Separate quotes for front, back and each side so they can choose which section they want to fund ;-) If the most annoying complainers live next to your property, perhaps you should raise pigs - with the pen on that side of your property.
At least you're not in an area with an HOA that controls the colors you can paints your house. I installed small rainwater collection systems (primarily for flower/garden watering) when we were in drought conditions some years ago (drought - NO outside water use). Two people had to get permission to "go green" from their respective HOAs but the "green" and "eco-friendly" arguments nearly always win out in the tree-hugging groups ;-)
With no on-site water, I'll assume you collect rainwater for your use. If you have a good surface (metal roof) the water is reasonably clean and can be filtered for potable use. Depending on how things are arranged, you might have (low pressure) running water from having one or more barrels raised 10 feet or so. I also see this as a great place for a small solar installation as small 12 volt demand pumps (2 - 4 gal/min) are under $20 in surplus (http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/ - get on their mailing list so you can get the almost weekly sale emails - almost everything they sell goes on sale twice a year. They sell much more than pumps but they're the best place I've found for relatively inexpensive small water pumps.). If you're interested, let me know what your water arrangement is and I can recommend the parts for a solar panel + 12 volt battery system - as usual, get two of everything because two is one and one is none ;-) You don't need a big pump for basic water needs: 11 psi will get water to the second floor of a house; kitchen/bath faucets work OK on 2 gal/min but a small showerhead needs a minimum of 2.5 gal/min and the bigger showerheads need more. 20psi is adequate for most things as houses in areas with high street water pressure (80psi+ where we are) have regulators to bring the pressure down to 20psi or so.
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Post by crice118 on Oct 21, 2017 16:40:08 GMT -6
This is my plan for my land, unfortunately, if land usage is different from mowed fields it is considered a nuisance and nuisance ordinances are used to force compliance to else you face fines for not looking being like the other lands (they don't like the way things look until you reach an end product, told one of my neighbors will buy it for far less than I paid for it and keep it mowed off eliminating the biodiversity and increasing the loss of fertility, else they keep calling and complaining and I end up in court, again, and again and again
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Post by crice118 on Oct 21, 2017 16:56:37 GMT -6
cardboard on ground to kill out vegetation so can auguer a hole thru cardboard which puts organic matter in ground for tree planting (common agricultural practice) is seen by neighbors as trash laying on my land, plastic for solarization is considered trash, placement of fenceposts where fence line needs to be set up is trash, recycling of materials such as shell of washing machine for frame to store root vegetables (fodder crops) nestled in hay is trash, old outhouse repurposed as tool shed is debris, greenhouse is offensive because mars view, animal tractors are recycled products so is just trash, small wood structures are debris, supplies such as a roll of wire for fencing, rabbit or chicken boxes, shingles for goats to keep hooves and chicken beaks and talons wore down is debris, tools by container garden and container garden is debris, bags of dirt bought on sale to use in the fall is trash because sitting by where it is to go in is offensive to the eyes, natural and native flowers and plants which support honey bees, bumble bees, and other solitary bees, wasps, butterflies, etc. because different from neighbors, free range chickens run across the road so people can't drive fast, RV on place is illegal to spend the nite in cause septic system is not hooked up yet and it is illegal to spend the nite in a tent on my property are nuisances and on and on and on - so count your blessings land is hard to find around here
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Post by crice118 on Oct 21, 2017 17:00:03 GMT -6
oh and a fence won't work neighbors built front and back balcony looks out over my property and it is sorta sloping where road looks down as it circles around
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Post by papaof2 on Oct 21, 2017 17:07:09 GMT -6
Sounds as though you need a lawyer who can take zoning of "agricultural" and sue all the people who aren't growing anything but want to hassle you for following the zoning. And get any future zoning changes to grandfather your zoning and make it inheritable within the family.
Following an event that slowed/stopped trucking (OPEC embargo of the '70's, terrorist attacks on multiple refineries. whatever), after a few weeks (days for some) they would be asking you about veggies and maybe meat - or using "midnight supply" to get it without asking. which is a good reason for having a serious fence.
Doesn't "nuisance" work both ways? Can you take them to court for nuisance reports and the like?
Maybe you should move to a state that went 90% for Trump or at least one where people know a smidgen about farming and animals. ;-)
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Post by biggkidd on Oct 22, 2017 10:12:09 GMT -6
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