Making your own Guns

[rvm45]

I have alluded to this Pass-Time several times.

It is not so much a Survival Skill. At present, arms and ammo are "Cheap" enough that it doesn't really pay to make them.

A man with a few Metal-Working Skills can buy a kit for an AR15 or an AK, and if he's diligent, and shops smart, he can make Semi-auto Rifles at a noticeable savings.

But while that is a good wholesome activity, it isn't really "Making Guns".

Secondly, it is fairly easy to make an Open-Bolt Blow-Back Firearm in a Pistol Caliber.....

i.e. A "Machine Pistol"--what some fastidiously insist on calling s "Submachinegun".....

Don't, just Don't. Those things will get you in Beaucoup trouble with the Laws, ain't all that great a Weapon anyway and serve mainly to burn through much Ammo.

Basically, anything that fires from an Open-Bolt is Forbidden (ATF Says they're "too easy" to convert to auto.)

Beyond that, there is a whole World of legal firearms build-able in a home workshop.

I don't want to write a Primer right now, to the legal peculiarities of Gun-Building; nor the Mechanics of it. I am going to give some links.

There is a Builder named "Charlie". He built a modern replica of the old "Volcanic" lever action Pistol. He wanted to shoot it, So he made his own wildcat--a cut-down .40 S&W Case. He calls it the " .40 Volcanic".....

Its a surprisingly nippy little round. Then Charlie made a Rifle Version of the same thing.

My good friend Colin has been building Olde Tyme Elephant Guns, in 4 Bore, and 2 Bore. He makes both Muzzle Loaders and Cartridge Guns (The custom ordered 2-bore brass cost about $50 a Shell. The ATF conceded that ammo was not "Commercially Available")

Fuzzbean has a .30 Carbine Pistol that he made in High School, that is now in the NRAs Museum.

Heathydee has made several Falling-Block Rifles, and is now working on a Pump Rifle.....

Kragaxe built a carbine in 7.62 X 25, that he Christened "Sexy Natasha". He's working on a .30 M1 Carbine Caliber Gun, made of Damascus that he made himself. I was riding him about not having enough Bling on "Sexy Natasha" and he promised to do one strictly for my Edification, named "Sonya the Russian Whore".

This first link is "Weapon Guild" You have to join to see anything. Its a bummer, but it does discourage a few net-surfing crazies. You need something like 50 posts to get into the Blue-Print section. Never mind. There's plenty of other good stuff, while you build up your post count.

www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php

You don't have to sign up to view this one. It is also Good. Very friendly people.

garagegunsmithing.com/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=54&jfile=index.php&sid=bd8655348c34d2700db09fecd6fd78bb

This is the Oldest. It costs $10 or $15 bucks nowadays, just to sign up. If you're going to sign up, get a full membership, and get the option with the Archives all on CD.....

Its good to have a hard copy.

I think that it cost somewhere between $35 and $50--its worth it, if you can afford it.

www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=6ab5f3e90af5fb90e2e318e6cfd7c3ec&

This one--Well, its worth pursuing.

www.weaponeer.net/forum/default.asp

This last one is almost totally dedicated to building Guns with CNC:

www.cncguns.com/forum/index.php

.....RVM45

[buckshot]

The weaponeer.net one is rather interesting if you are interested in the process they go through to take a formerly restricted full auto (can't be imported legally for most things since it can not be put in the Registry, which is locked) kit and make it a legal semi-auto product.

I watched this all the way through with the Suomi M31 Finish SMG and the semi-auto legal version that came out of that.

It takes years and the BATFE makes things be modified that you normally would not even think of. The new firearm basically can use NO action parts of the old one without them being extensively modified first. They want to make SURE you can't stick the old FA parts into the new SA firearm.

Buckshot

[rvm45]

Its not nearly so depressing and Complicated as all that.

True, you can't have more than 10 "Substantial" Foreign parts in an "Assault Rifle". There's a whole cottage industry grown up to give you just the parts you'll need to make whichever weapon you settle on.

That's just part of the scene though. Some people are making never-before-seen Prototypes, or are copying Broomhandle Mausers or Colt Peacemakers.


There's a dude named "Dumpster" who machined two 1911A1s out of Aluminum. I think the Barrel, Sear and Disconnector was about the only parts he bought.

Asked if the Aluminum Frames and slides would hold up to years of hard use, he shrugged. If they wore out, he'd CNC another Pair.

Here, look at Sexy Natasha,

Designed and made by Kragaxe:

Sexy Natasha

With a name like that...you know you just had to look!

Nothing fancy on this one...no new designs on bolts, super-techno-gizmo locking mechanisms or special delays....

I'm going with a straight forward simple blowback, but I think it's going to be a really sexy finished product. Y'all have had me itch'n to do a 7.62x25 build and this is the perfect excuse to put it together. I was supposed to be hopping between National labs, but all that got cancelled and I have about two weeks to get a lot done before I start in rotations to nothern NV. I'll get another four weeks plus Christmas-New Year's, and that should be more than enough.

Anyway, onto the build! I decided to name her Sexy Natasha. I'm using a PPS-43 lower unit for starters, 7.62x25 cal and uniquely incorporating an AKM barrel into it as well as maybe some other slavic parts, so Natasha seemed like a perfect name!

Added 9/22:
FCG-bastardized AK hook and disconnector (leftovers from yugo M70 kit build)
trigger and hammer home-built
Upper Reciever: Home built from 4130 tube
Bolt: Home Built from 4150 rod
Lower Reciever: PPS-43 bought off Gunbroker $19.99
Barrel: Green Mountain Blank (I'll most likely get the chambetred blank from Cody @$70)
Cheapo .30 cal barrel..probably one of the tore up yugo barrels or one of the $10 30 cal barrels from
gunbroker laying about the shop (used for muzzle brake, sight posts and a few other assorted parts)
Butt stock: 4 position AR stock from Centerfire $29.99
Fore guard: home built from aluminum tubing($8) and picatinny rails ($12 ebay)


Tools Used:
Drill press
HF 9x19 benchtop lathe
4" Angle grinder
2x72 belt grinder
dremmel
Lincoln 120A MIG welder (but only set up as flux-core right now)
A couple heat treating furnaces

Here's the concept drawing:


Lower unit is a PPS-43 frame that's getting shortened several inches. Upper will be a 4130 steel tube. Trunnion will be from a hunk of 4130 rod and the barrel will be screwed into it. I plan on using a 16.5" bull barrel with this. Bolt will be a long cylinder with a cutout where the hammer will strike the end of the firing pin. Bolt rear will be hollow and utilize a buffer assembly like an AR-15. In fact, I will probably use an M4 butt stock assembly. Front guard will be from an aluminum tube section and the barrel will be free-floated. The rest will be determined as it's built.

She'll be duracoated with cold, dark, depressing, siberian grey tones...but smok'n hot when she gets fired up!




.....RVM

Attachments:

[rvm45]

Try this illustration:


This one is the finished Gun, the other is a concept drawing.

.....RVM45

Attachments:

[buckshot]

Oct 12, 2011 18:06:13 GMT -6 rvm45 said:

Its not nearly so depressing and Complicated as all that.

True, you can't have more than 10 "Substantial" Foreign parts in an "Assault Rifle". There's a whole cottage industry grown up to give you just the parts you'll need to make whichever weapon you settle on.

That's just part of the scene though. Some people are making never-before-seen Prototypes, or are copying Broomhandle Mausers or Colt Peacemakers.



.....RVM

RVM45.

You are talking about an imported non-sporting rifle and 922r.

I am talking about taking a demilled SMG, in this case a M31 Suomi Finnish 9 mm SMG and turning it into a legal semi-auto 9 mm carbine.

Guys worked on it for a couple of years while I followed them on Weaponeer.net.

They tried several things, getting something they think would work set up and then submitting it to the BATFE. I think several times the 1-off conversions were approved, but time and again the conversion method WAS NOT accepted for production.

These are things they had to get around.

1. The original weapon was an open bolt fixed firing pin design. This could NOT be kept.

2. The BATFE WOULD NOT accept the bolt being left the same diameter as the bolt on the original FA open bolt weapon.

3. SEVERAL sets of internals were tried. Most of them involved the AR 15 fire control parts, a few tried the AK fire control parts. In both cases the legal semi-auto fire control parts.

4. The weapon finally approved for manufacture does not have a swinging hammer from either an AR or AK. Instead it has a forward bolt assembly and another part behind that that is an in-line hammer to fire the weapon.

Centerfire Systems had the completed Suomi conversions for a while, made by, I think, a subdivision of theirs, TNW. Oops, looks like the completed carbines are back and the "build it yourself" is now not available! Now they don't seem to have these, instead they have KITS to build one yourself.

Same design, but you assemble and finish it and save $200.00 off the price of the finished firearm.

Link for Completed gun:

centerfiresystems.com/tnw_rifles.aspx

Link to manual:

www.tnguns.com/shop/manuals/m31manual_halfsize.pdf

Build it yourself page:

centerfiresystems.com/hb-m31.aspx

Looks like it is discontinued.

Build it yourself papers:

www.centerfiresystems.com/pdfs/hb-m31_opt.pdf

They also have an M32 Pistol (stockless) and a later MP-44 pistol and demil kits.

Buckshot

[steve]

Writing PA stories leads one to a lot of research. I've often been intrigued by the claims of some firearm designs (like the Sten) that they could be made by "anyone with a little bit of machining knowledge." Really? Or the infamous AK-47 firearm that keeps being claimed to be made cheaply and with unskilled labor.

I've always been curious if anyone has ever put such claims to the test, to prove or disprove that just about anyone with even a cursory amount of machining knowledge would be able to construct such firearms. Obviously, there are various federal and state laws that would have to be observed before such an endeavor could be started. However, it would be really interesting to pull a few people aside (a la your typical reality TV show, like a "Junkyard Wars") and challenge them to build such weapons and then to see the results. Maybe the results would lead to better instructions or even more efficient designs.

[buckshot]

Steve,

You can build a Sten out of some muffler pipe, and a chunk of seamless tubing, if you don't mind not having a rifled barrel. Little more work if you can buy (or steal) a section of barrel. LOTS more work if you have to make a barrel, but even that can be done, reference the gunsmith made PA/KY rifles.

AKs are a little harder in that you have to have someone with enough skill to make a die to cut the receiver blank and then the jigs and fixtures to bend it. You also have to get the right kind of sheet metal and be able to heat treat it when/where needed IF it is.

Other than that, once you have the parts it is no harder than building an AR up from parts. All the brain work is done in the dies, jigs and fixtures, then it takes only someone smart enough to operate the tools and press without removing body parts to build them.

When AK kits were common people had "build parties" to get what tooling was needed together (mostly a press to seat barrels and then do the rivets) and 5 - 15 guys, or more in a really big build party, came away with an AK or two for the days work.

If you can run a lathe well enough to cut, turn, face and bore and use a drill press and a welder you can cobble together an open bolt SMG, the easiest thing in the world to build. That is why the BATFE does not permit them generally and really watches anything that looks that way.

It is actually EASIER to make one full auto than to make it selectable full or semi auto!

The other thing here is a magazine. They can be a total bear to build, that is why most people borrow from existing mags for a new design.

Buckshot

[rvm45]

STEVE,

Here is an interesting design.....

Ingenius yet primitive. Ole PA Luty spent several years in British Gaol for building it.

He's dead now.

RIP Phil...

vimeo.com/23292249

thehomegunsmith.com/

The first link takes you to a very professionally done Slide Show. The second is a Link to LUTY'S SITE.

Among other things, you can download plans for the Caselman Air Gun (a legal .30 cal Machine Pistol--cause its air)

.....RVM45

[rvm45]

Here is a very good link for anyone who is interested in Guerilla Gunmaking;

And plans for the Caselman Airgun:

translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fbigpicture.ru%2F%3Fp%3D63558

Sorry, they say the Caselman PDF is too big. go here:

thehomegunsmith.com/CaselmanAPMG.html

Also, check out this one:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiH_o6XpMvI&feature=related

.....RVM45