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Post by papaof2 on Jul 6, 2022 18:37:57 GMT -6
Remember the previous post and follow up the second week in January to see how well your current estimates match the real world of winter.
For a BMS to do proper balancing, it needs to know the type of battery and the desired voltage per cell. It appears that having that correct is one of the keys to long life - along with not over charging or over discharging.
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Post by biggkidd on Jul 6, 2022 19:18:41 GMT -6
Okay we all know I am not the brightest when it comes to this tech stuff. But I believe the BMS I bought is one of the newest smart BMS's that passive balances all the time EXCEPT when the voltage gets above 3.5 volts per cell then it goes in to active balancing. Not entirely sure what all that means to be honest but what I do know is it's always balancing the cells. Most of the time when I check it they are within .002 of perfect since I've had it up and running in the cart. As far as January goes I'm interested in knowing as well. I'm thinking during real cold weather when the battery heaters have to run fairly often I will probably need some additional charging. I have a 0.12A fan for the heat and 2) 25w heaters for the cold both hooked to thermostats to operate automatically.
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Post by papaof2 on Jul 6, 2022 19:32:44 GMT -6
If the cells are that close, then the balancing is working well.
Do you know the maximum temperature the heaters can reach and the maximum temperature the battery's case can withstand or the battery's maximum ambient temperature? If not, that's something to research before things get cold. If the heaters have hot spots instead of evenly distributed heat, they might do more harm than good. Probably a good place for an IR camera/scanner - another $170-$450 tool I can't yet justify but it would be ideal for checking whether the heating is even.
An IR camera would also be great for checking connections to battery packs, large loads (motors, inverters) and the heatsinks on solar charge controllers. I've checked the controllers with an IR themometer that has a laser pointer for about where the center of temperature is, but be nice to have an IR camera that flags the hottest area without you having to search the entire heatsink surface - that would also tell you the best place to put a fan if additional cooling is needed.
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Post by biggkidd on Jul 6, 2022 20:15:43 GMT -6
I can just hold my hand on the heaters when they are running so not to much over 100 to 120f I'd guess. They are sitting on Styrofoam and under a sheet of aluminum to distribute the heat more evenly. The cells sit directly on the Alu sheet. According to the BMS temp probe the batteries only get slightly above ambient temperature so far. Neither one of the two thermostats read the same or the same as the BMS but they are all within 1 degree c which is close enough I hope. I have the heat set to come on at 3c and off at 5c the fan comes on at 37.9 and off at 35. I was trying to keep the fan from running all day during the summer but low enough to do some good. I have only seen the BMS's fan come on when it's been exposed to direct sunlight and had time to soak up the heat. Granted I can neither hear nor see if it's running when the cart is in motion. The last three days here have all hit 100f. 55c is the max working temp according to the data sheet and -20c is the coldest working temp but HAVE to be above 0c to charge without damage.
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Post by papaof2 on Jul 6, 2022 22:02:25 GMT -6
Sounds like a good start on heating and cooling the batteries.
Maybe add a 20-30 watt solar panel just to run the fan? No power used from the batteries and the fan can run whenever the temp is high enough. With independent power, the fan's thermostat could be set lower or just have a basic bi-metal thermostat that turned power to the fan on/off at whatever set temperature you want. No electronics needed, just a bi-metal thermostat and they're available every 5 degrees C: 30, 35, 40, etc.
I have some 35C and 40C (the round, bolt-on kind) to add to some charge controller heatsinks if the passive (leakage) cooling in the unconditioned space in the basement isn't adequate in summer. That area is cool this year so I'm thinking there's a supply duct somewhere that's dumping cool air into the normally unconditioned area of the basement so I've found yet another problem that needs attention but I'm in too much pain from the pinched nerve in my back to be moving and climbing a step ladder and popping and replacing ceiling tiles in the basement to find where that large air leak is - unless the HVAC guy spotted something when he was checking the system in May and the basement now has the airflow it should have had in previous years... Still need to do some checking as I don't like unknown changes in HVAC or other house systems.
I have another session with the pain doctor in 2 weeks and she'll be trying some nerve blocks to see if RF nerve ablation (heating the nerves providing erroneous pain information until they die at that spot and it typically takes 6-12 months for the damaged nerve to recover and start sending those pain messages again. Beyond that, there's a minimally invasive "almost fusion" procedure - needing an incision of perhaps an inch - where a plastic spacer with ridges (think tire treads) to hold that spacer in place between two bones in the pelvis to keep those bones from moving and rubbing together - effectively a "fusion". The good doctor is checking whether my insurance will vover that implant. If it works, it would cost them less in the long term, as would the ablation, because I'm now getting a $2700 spinal injection about every 4 weeks and something that lasted months or years would be cheaper in the long term, even at twice the price. I'll know what the insurance covers in a while - they sometimes process the "Do you cover X?" requests with all the speed of Christmas in the mind of a 5-year-old ;-)
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Post by biggkidd on Jul 7, 2022 9:33:44 GMT -6
Sure hope you feel better and that the meds are available when you need them.
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Post by biggkidd on Jul 7, 2022 13:25:59 GMT -6
Put an offer in on some HD 4 leaf rear springs, hope they accept. Also found some reasonably priced shocks on Amazon and ordered those. This will pretty much finish out the suspension repairs & upgrades. Unfortunately I won't be able to order wheels & tires anytime soon.
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Post by papaof2 on Jul 7, 2022 14:04:18 GMT -6
Hope the new springs can handle your hot-rodding ;-)
Good that you can still get parts for a vehicle that old, but I suspect a lot of them are still in service - some folks just keep using things that work ;-)
My previous riding mower was 17 when I sold it because it needed relatively small work that would be high cost for a mower that old (compression release didn't release when cold). I couldn't manage that 16HP engine by myself and the repair requires pulling the engine because that bit is inside the block at the business end of the crankshaft :-( Didn't do too badly on the deal - the old mower and yard trailer had cost me $450 10+ years previously and I sold the mower for $200. The replacement mower was the previous year's model on sale and with an xx% discount my price was the same as that old mower when it was new. If I can just get 17 years out of this one...
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Post by biggkidd on Jul 7, 2022 19:05:33 GMT -6
Took the cart off property today around 5 or 6 miles not counting the chore runs. Used 23% of the battery according to the BMS for that 5 to 6 mile run. Tried to get a top speed number but just wasn't possible the road is to rough to run flat out. The fastest I saw was 16mph but that was going up hill. I gave up at that point and just slowed down to a more comfortable drive.
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Post by biggkidd on Jul 11, 2022 8:58:08 GMT -6
Told ya I check CL just about everyday. Well I think I found a deal on some wheels & tires. Full set of new take offs for $150. Supposed to go meet the guy at 5. Not exactly what I wanted but for the price they will be just fine! lol
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Post by papaof2 on Jul 11, 2022 10:21:08 GMT -6
Criteria for Craig's List buying ;-)
1 - Does it fit?
2 - Is it good enough?
3 - Is it cheap?
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Post by biggkidd on Jul 11, 2022 11:03:04 GMT -6
Yes Yes Yes and 4 for the price of 1 and the tires still have tags.
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Post by biggkidd on Jul 11, 2022 16:01:02 GMT -6
Got the tires. They are BRAND NEW all the little rubber tags on the tread are intact, look even better in person than I expected. One is flat or low on air hope it doesn't become an issue. They are a little smaller than expected, only measure 21 across even though they have 22X9/10 on the side but they'll do. Sure can not complain about the price.
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Post by biggkidd on Jul 11, 2022 18:17:35 GMT -6
What a HUGE difference in ride quality. Went up by a minimum of 300%. The old tires were so stiff I might as well have been riding on steel! Granted these tires will never last 20-30 years like the others. Doesn't matter one lick to me my back loves these in comparison! Like getting out of an empty garbage truck in to a luxury SUV! I'm not done yet either. The springs and shocks should get here later in the week.
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Post by papaof2 on Jul 11, 2022 19:10:05 GMT -6
You gonna have air conditioning, a hot tub and a 65 inch TV on that thing? ;-)
Never rode/drove a garbage truck but I did drive a basic wrecker once when my car was in the shop and I needed to pick up my wife at work. A real genuine, knee-shaker clutch, granny-low first gear, hook on the back, 1960's vintage wrecker. I've driven manual transmission vehicles most of my life but that one trip was enough to make me ask for a wrecker with an automatic ;-) I drove a 20 foot box truck when one adult kid and spouse needed help moving. I did take the only truck with an automatic, even if it was the oldest truck on the lot - no point in speeding up the need for a knee replacement...
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Post by biggkidd on Jul 11, 2022 20:17:03 GMT -6
Air conditioning is already there no doors and a half windshield. Lol A nice Bluetooth music system could be cool, but I have NO use for TV!
All heavy duty old trucks ride like crap without a load in them I'm sure you get the idea.
After snow plowing 73 hours straight one time using a manual in an 80's international single axel dump truck I feel the clutch pain! IIRC it was 1996 we had 18 inches of snow and about the time people were starting to be able to get out and about again 60 hours or so later we got another 18 inches. I put fuel in that truck 2 to 3 times a day for those three days and that was the only time I wasn't pushing snow. When I finally crashed I slept the clock around twice.
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Post by biggkidd on Jul 12, 2022 19:47:30 GMT -6
I thought the BMS had started flaking out on the GC but it turned out the battery cell bolts needed to be re-torqued. First time I've ever had to re-torque any type of battery bolt. Maybe the vibration got them. Vibration is 90% gone with the new tires. Dang those old ones rode ROUGH!!!!!
Replacement lift kit and new shocks came in today. I'm going to cheat and replace the spring with one off a trailer instead of opening the other kit they sent. I do have another cart ya know! lol The heavy duty rear springs should be here friday I believe.
There's a small chance I might make a trade for another bare club car frame sometime this week. If I do there could be a custom build in the future if anyone would be interested in following along. I'd still like a mini truck to use around here and I kinda hate to give up the 2 back seats to make a small bed on the cart I am using now.
Had the cart up to 21 today on what I think was more or less level ground. Did 15-16 up a pretty good hill too. I was by myself.
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Post by papaof2 on Jul 12, 2022 20:54:06 GMT -6
Did you use a torque wrench on the battery bolts? I had to buy a wrench with the correct range for the first set of AGM batteries I had but it's just a part of doing maintenance - like having an oil filter wrench for a gas engine. Any torqued bolt that's subject to vibration needs to be rechecked after x days or xx miles. I checked mine the first time when under a good load but I checked with an IR thermometer - looking for any connections that were hotter than others. Good connections are close to ambient temperature. Bad connections get hot with a load.
OK, NASCAR will officially require a helmet, a roll cage and a five-point harness system if you get thing going just a few MPH faster ;-)
Think back to the Subaru BRAT (Bi-drive Recreational All Terrain vehicle) - a small pickup with seats sort-of-permanently mounted in the bed. Then look at some quick-release mounts for the seats (lots of useful bits out there in RV, off-road, rock climber and just basic mechanical and engineering catalogs - some of them never intended for seats - think material clamps for wood or metal working - but they might work just fine for the seats) and you can have your truck and/or the seats alternately as needed - with a bit of work ;-) Maybe build a rack on the front of the cart to hold the seats when you need to use the bed for cargo?
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Post by biggkidd on Jul 13, 2022 8:55:49 GMT -6
No I don't have one YET.
A friend down the road a little has a cart with a folding rear seat. The bottom flips out & over to make a flat bed about 42x42. I will more than likely do that to this cart but something similar with a true truck type bed with sides sure would be nice. Besides I've been wanting a mini monster truck for many years. Still waiting to see if the guy with the extra frame is going to come through. I need that along with the other cart I have to build what I have in mind. Along with a ton of other junk! lol Basically it would be a 1/2 or 5/8 scale pickup truck without doors. Besides I enjoy building this kind of stuff from old junk and new tech combined.
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Post by biggkidd on Jul 13, 2022 11:06:53 GMT -6
Alright all my parts are in. I just got done cutting the old trailer spring pack apart to rob a leaf from to fix the front where the spring is broken. It's a bit thicker and stronger than the original so it should work well. It will lift the front a little higher than it was and the heavy duty rear springs are going to pick the rear up another couple inches. So it should finally sit like I want it to and lose a TON of body roll and lean. It will have new springs and shocks all the way around. Should make it drive & ride a LOT better. Of course it could end up being crazy stiff without a load on it. Only time will tell.
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Post by biggkidd on Jul 13, 2022 11:27:06 GMT -6
Trade for the other frame fell through someone showed up and bought it before I could get there. Oh well I have other ways if another doesn't magically appear before I get around to needing it.
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Post by biggkidd on Jul 21, 2022 20:31:56 GMT -6
Well I finally managed to kill the battery. I haven't plugged it in to charge in awhile and we've been riding it all over the place. Probably better than 40 miles over the course of the last week over and above the chores. Today I got busy and didn't pay any attention to it other than once about lunch time I noticed the voltage was 50.12. So I knew it was low. I found out tonight at dark the motor draws enough current that the BMS will shut down on account of voltage drop when the resting voltage is around 48 volts. Which it was and I just wasn't paying attention or I wouldn't have let it drop below 50V. We haven't had a day of sunshine in sometime. There are periods of some sun but it's been pretty cloudy and or hazy for a month at least. Thinking I'll set up another panel here at the house where I park to plug in during the middle of the day while I hide from the heat or whenever I'm in the house.
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Post by papaof2 on Jul 22, 2022 2:04:50 GMT -6
Having an extra panel or a 300 watt power supply (30 volts, 10 amps or 60 volts, 5 amps - either is about $70-$80 from Banggood or Aliexpress) would get you that extra charging. The solar panel is zero future cost charging if you have sun and if you remember to use it - assuming your charge controller can handle another 300 watts.
You need an "idiot light" for the battery voltage ;-) There are some bits from Banggood and Aliexpress that could be made into a "Beep at selected voltage" style "idiot light" if you want that type warning.
For the solar backup system, I use its AH meter. When it says xx% of battery capacity has been used, I start turning things off and/or setting up more charging capacity but I do pay close attention when the only power is from the battery bank - I do NOT want to have a generator running in the driveway overnight.
batteryhookup.com has 3.2 volt 250AH LiFePO4 naked cells (not even a plastic insulator) at 2 for $250 (plus tax/ship). For about $600, I could have a 12 volt, 250AH LiFePO4 battery with BMS. I missed the HQST sale earlier in the week, with 12 volt, 150AH batteries (in case, with BMS) for under $500 delivered. Always good to have an extra $2000 - $3000 available when the deals are only available for a few days :-(
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Post by biggkidd on Jul 22, 2022 12:27:36 GMT -6
Took another homesteader for a quick ride today. Pulled over in the grass and said you know how golf carts are slow and boring! He says yeah they are kinda lame. Then I proceeded to punch it and pulled a good foot high wheelie with his big 250 pound butt in the cart with me. Then we proceeded down the road and he's like dang we must be doing 20 what did you do to this thing? I just laughed and showed him the battery. He's no longer convinced all golf carts are lame. LMAO!!!!!!!!!
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Post by papaof2 on Jul 22, 2022 15:13:47 GMT -6
Getting those original batteries out and putting in that much smaller and lighter battery probably changed the center of gravity of the cart as well as its curb weight and might have made it easier to get a wheelie. 48 volts on a 36 volt motor doesn't hurt the torque but it might shorten the life of the motor. The internal resistance of the LiFePO4 battery is appreciably less than that of a group of lead-acid batteries so there's more voltage available under load.
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