What don't you like?

[admin]

We have talked about how stories should be written, and what we like about stories.

I thought we'd explore the other side - what don't you like when you read a story or a book?

I do this NOT to guide someone's story telling but just to get ideas of what readers may not care for.

For example, unless a specific brand and model plays an important part in the story then "9mm semi-automatic pistol" is just as good "Glock Model 17 9mm semi-automatic pistol" and "family sized tent" is easier to understand than "Coleman® 8-Person Tenaya Lake™ Fast Pitch™ Cabin Camping Tent"

Just thought it would be interesting......

[freebirde]

Stories that are like meals that are the same entree but different plating or different sides.

[papaof2]

freebirde -

Part of that will be a given author's expectations of where the current political/economic systems are likely to fail. Patience saw financial failure; I see weakness in the power grid (among other things) - with the cold weather in Texas in February this year being a good bad example; others see government failure; others see weather: drought which means no water for the masses, crop failures and starvation, part of the country is in that right now and the reverse is true in parts of Europe (Flood stories, anyone?); others see disease (natural or man-made); others see war, an EMP, cyber attacks (currently happening) or a solar flare - a repeat of the Carrington Event today would definitely put a crimp in modern technology.

Some authors are better at "dressing up" the underlying failure with interesting people and events and we get so wrapped up in the characters' responses to events that we don't care about the root cause. When you've lost a few hours in a story, you know the author caught your attention, regardless of the underlying premise ;-) I know that I've lost more than a few hours here and I can blame more than one author for that...

There are some stories which feel as though they were done from a template: 12 gunshots, 4 people dead, 3 vehicles stolen, etc & etc with little more than the names, dates and places changed. That's easy enough to do with the better word processing programs (even the free ones): you create a template for the basic story events and dialogue with blanks for places, dates and names then you just fill in the blanks. I have some templates from the days of being an independent software developer (weekly time report, detailed work invoice with incrementing invoice number) so it's not hard - after the first one or two :-( I've never tried it for a short story but the process would not be a lot more complicated than an invoice.

[9idrr]

Not really big on zombie stories but I've read a few. Grammar and spelling can be a real bugaboo for me.

[willc453]

Jul 18, 2021 18:09:23 GMT -6 9idrr said:

Not really big on zombie stories but I've read a few. Grammar and spelling can be a real bugaboo for me.

Got a zombie story that I started awhile back, with them being the slow moving kind.....so far. It's going to be based on the corona virus mutating. With each story, I try making the characters different and their own goals in life being different when it comes to being Affected. Even got a story partially started where I guy witnesses a UFO crashing between Tonopah and Hawthorne. And yeah, I know what the countryside is like out there....desolate as hell. And the guberment is looking for him, with part of the story having it declaring him dead. Anyone know how to get false I.D., like a drivers license, social security card, etc.? Try getting a job without them, even thru a temp agency. 

[brucearmstrong65]

What don't I like? It depends on the author and the story.

I will overlook and/or ignore poor spelling and grammar, if the story is good.

Same with certain authors that go into explicit detail about names of guns, products, etc. Usually, saying 12-gauge pump-action shotgun is good enough for me.

I love Jerry D. Young's and TOM's work, and both of them go into almost-excruciating detail with regards to gear, guns, and the like.

TOM tended to put whole news stories, pamphlets, etc. inside some of his stories, which could make them a little long-winded at times. However, he was giving information to the reader to back up or "set the scene" for a particular story.

The one thing that really irritates me is huge blocks of type - few or no paragraph breaks, chapters, etc. It can make for tedious reading and frankly tends to give me a headache.

Okay, enough complaining from the guy who doesn't finish writing stories (ironic, since dead / abandoned stories are another gripe of mine! LOL)

[willc453]

I don't understand how anyone can write a story and have bad grammar in it, though I do use a lot lot of commas when I think I should use a semi-colon instead. Just not sure when/where they're suppose to used, As to describing equipment in detail, that's bs. There was series of books a good 20+ years ago and think it was called The Survivalist? About an ex-CIA guy who know would go around the country, being paid to give seminars on how to survive in different situations, including weapons. It read more like a magazine article at times and because of this. When I talk about weapons, I keep it as basic and simple as possible.

I've got a Ruger P898DC 9mm pistol which carries 9 rounds. As far as I know, NO ONE'S interested in it's weight, muzzle velocity, etc., etc., etc. In The Layover, I posted some photos of the stuff I own/use, figuring that's good enough for some of my gear like a Mora knife or my Gurkha simply because some may not be familiar with these and other items. I've got a couple of regular bows and a compound one. When I write about them being used, won't be mentioning their brand name, draw weight, etc. as it's NOT needed in the story. As to arrows, there's only 2 kinds to me....the pointy ones and the ones with BIG arrow bladed heads that will F you up when you hit something with it.

I try to keep my paragraphs at reasonable lengths and more than once, they've been too long. So before posting anything, I go thru that chapter making every- thing makes sense, no spelling errors and no big, long paragraphs unless really needed. The stories I dislike is when someone will write 3-4 sentences and starts a new paragraph?! And I don't like short chapters either. If you're going to write, give the people something they can actually read instead of them crying out for more after a minute or two of reading. That's why my chapters are usually so long....give people value for their time.

And on page 5 of chapter 43 in Thor's story. At a point where it may slop over onto a 6th or part of a 6th page. Okay....it's somebodies else's turn on the soapbox.

[CountryGuy]

Aug 24, 2021 14:52:50 GMT -6 brucearmstrong65 said:

What don't I like? It depends on the author and the story.

I will overlook and/or ignore poor spelling and grammar, if the story is good.

Same with certain authors that go into explicit detail about names of guns, products, etc. Usually, saying 12-gauge pump-action shotgun is good enough for me.

I love Jerry D. Young's and TOM's work, and both of them go into almost-excruciating detail with regards to gear, guns, and the like.

TOM tended to put whole news stories, pamphlets, etc. inside some of his stories, which could make them a little long-winded at times. However, he was giving information to the reader to back up or "set the scene" for a particular story.

The one thing that really irritates me is huge blocks of type - few or no paragraph breaks, chapters, etc. It can make for tedious reading and frankly tends to give me a headache.

Okay, enough complaining from the guy who doesn't finish writing stories (ironic, since dead / abandoned stories are another gripe of mine! LOL)

I'd agree, some of their stories is like reading a supply catalog and the characters conversations are so weird and unnatural. Like writers need to name every latest toy and gadget to the point it makes you wonder if they have affiliate links every time they mention them.

I notice some writers have a tendency to have to regurgitate the same items to nearly every person their character comes into contact with. Also often the supposed seasoned prepper/ survivalist pukes out all the info about their stuff like a 3rd grader caught cheating on a math test. So much for OPSEC.

Another thing is the people always seem to somehow become dang near independently wealthy and have stock piled 1/2 million dollars of stuff into what must be the largest garage and hose there is, sort of like Santa's toy sack... shove more in there like half a convoy of ammo and 4.2 tons of gold bars...

Last peeve is that many of the authors seem to not know how to hit the speeling and gramer chek. I also get many are writing quickly but nice to see when they now to not use know or the difference between there and their... 

[papaof2]

CG,

Grammar and spell check are free to anyone who will download one of the free office suites such as LibreOffice. Using my arthritic hands, one-off typing errors ("s" versus "d" and similar) are expected so spell check gets a lot of use.

However, nothing beats having a human proofreader who can tell you "There's a word missing here" or "The hero's name has changed in Chapter 22" or "His twin girls are now a boy and a girl who are two years apart." Those corrections require a human who pays attention to people, places and storyline - nice that my retired schoolteacher wife is usually willing to do some of that for the stories headed for Kindle publication ;-) Even if I read over a story four or five times, I might not see everything - and it's obvious some stories may not have been read over once before posting :-(

Good stories will be read but they may not be recommended as often because some people will get less than a chapter in and decide "Too many annoying speed bumps in this writing" while others will just ignore most of the "bumps" and keep reading. Bottom line, if you want the reader to have a smooth trip you need to do some "maintenance" ;-)

[CountryGuy]

See I never know whether to make a comment when I see or read things, especially if it's in an older post/ story. On one level I'm like, I don't want them to think I'm nitpicking but at the same point I think if it were me I'd like to know to try to correct or edit. So I worry, will the author look at it as a positive, to you're point, sort of a freebie proof read or will they take it negatively thinking someone is insulting their work.

[papaof2]

That might depend on the time of day or the type of day that the author has had. If it's been a very good day, the response might be "Good changes". If the tires on the author's truck were slashed and he just learned that his wife, his girlfriend and the payment on the truck are all three months overdue, the response might not be as positive :-(

I'm more likely to send a PM asking if the author is interested in my critique - that's easy to back away from and isn't likely to trigger a public response that the author might later regret.

[willc453]

This is why I'll read my own chapters 2-3 times, because more than once, realize it doesn't sound/feel right. Even so, I have screwed the pooch a few times and got called for it and I'm glad. So far (as far as I know), it's only been minor things. As to Country Guy's comment about how everyone in a survival story has all this money, etc., THAT'S what got me into writing, starting with The Layover many years ago. Seems I pissed off a lot of people for criticizing those kinds of stories. Their response was why don't YOU write/submit a story, then? I did and in the end, got suspended from there for 2 weeks and story was deleted. So bad, that it couldn't even be posted on the Dark Side. PAW Fiction was nice to invite me here and I ain't looked back since.

[9idrr]

Their loss in our gain, sir.

[gipsy]

I am not a Zombie fan either.

[papaof2]

Dec 11, 2021 20:23:16 GMT -6 gipsy said:

I am not a Zombie fan either.

Far too many of those already in politics: Joe Burden, Nasty Pigosi, Maxine Wateredherself, AOC and others.

[CountryGuy]

Dec 11, 2021 2:17:15 GMT -6 willc453 said:

I did and in the end, got suspended from there for 2 weeks and story was deleted. So bad, that it couldn't even be posted on the Dark Side. PAW Fiction was nice to invite me here and I ain't looked back since.

Dang that must have been dark. Is that work posted here?

[willc453]

Dec 11, 2021 20:51:30 GMT -6 CountryGuy said:

Dec 11, 2021 2:17:15 GMT -6 willc453 said:

I did and in the end, got suspended from there for 2 weeks and story was deleted. So bad, that it couldn't even be posted on the Dark Side. PAW Fiction was nice to invite me here and I ain't looked back since.

Dang that must have been dark. Is that work posted here?

Yes, it's in the completed story thread. Not done, but then it'd been 5 years(?) since I added anything to it. All of the story was based on what I knew of Portland when I used to drive truck. Once or twice a month, I'd run up there from Reno. It's written as diary entries, so there's only 1 perspective from the main character, Andy. I did start 2 other chapters, 1 with him and some Oregon army national guard people and a couple of new characters going to Idaho to hopefully bring back potatoes and cattle from there. Andy's in love with 2 Hooter girls who are in their 20's and he's in his mid 50's. Started this when Obama was President. Anyway, something bad happened to the parents of one of the girls, while the other girls mother has disappeared, so he's looking for her. And in doing so, he's REALLY pissed off a bunch of Satanists who are hunting him after he got done shooting and killing a bunch of 'em. Which brings in more, new characters on their way to Idaho. 

Talked elsewhere about Dads estate, which finally got settled. Been checking Craigslist/Facebook for used class A motorhomes and got 6(?) I wanna check out. Some in Reno/Sparks, others NW of Yuba City, Calif. and Sacramento. Will post an update under the general thread when I buy one, with me planning visiting youngest brother and his family north of Tampa, Florida. After that, weather permitting, will visit cousin in Nebraska, then head for Oregon/Idaho to SEE what the country is like for that story. Yeah, I could Google (and did) a lot of info, but I want my story to show that I know what Andy is seeing/finding out. 

[9idrr]

Truly an excellent story, by the way.

[papaof2]

Being there is always good. I could tell you about the places in Atlanta where the two-lane surface streets move faster than the interstate highway they parallel, but you might not appreciate the speed difference until you've driven that stretch at 8:30AM ;-)

Unless we're going to another state - and not always then, we rarely use the interstates in metro Atlanta. If the surface street route gets you there 10 minutes sooner, why put up with the hassles of the interstate?

[papaof2]

Aug 18, 2021 21:01:47 GMT -6 willc453 said:

Jul 18, 2021 18:09:23 GMT -6 9idrr said:

Not really big on zombie stories but I've read a few. Grammar and spelling can be a real bugaboo for me.

Got a zombie story that I started awhile back, with them being the slow moving kind.....so far. It's going to be based on the corona virus mutating. With each story, I try making the characters different and their own goals in life being different when it comes to being Affected. Even got a story partially started where I guy witnesses a UFO crashing between Tonopah and Hawthorne. And yeah, I know what the countryside is like out there....desolate as hell. And the guberment is looking for him, with part of the story having it declaring him dead. Anyone know how to get false I.D., like a drivers license, social security card, etc.? Try getting a job without them, even thru a temp agency. 

False ID?

There's someone who posts on the Atlanta area Craig's List occasionally about new IDs, driver's licenses, Social Security cards, etc. etc. If an ID doesn't have a internal security layer of some type, 1998 technology can reproduce that card. When the ID has a picture, an imbedded grey-scale picture and possibly a lensed image that requires being tilted just right, you're getting into a higher level of technology but much of that is a matter of seeing a way to do it with simpler equipment. Not a line of work I'm looking to be a part of, but I try to stay aware of how fakes can be made so I'll know if someone is trying to scam me. "That stupid old fart ain't got no idea what's going on." And there is a possibility that he might not be armed...

Some of those things are difficult to duplicate to a level that will pass "official" inspection but many are not that secure for casual use. I once told the people I worked with that most of the company's building entry cards were not secure and I proved that point by taking my then-current card for another location and extending the date by a year. I used my "new" ID (made with a scanner + photo-printer + some printable white plastic "photo paper") to enter that building and then told the folks about it and showed them both cards. None of them could see any difference other than the date. Even the Chinese vendors can help Banggood.com sells the X-ray film that's a part of the security layer(s) in some ID cards and lamination machines are inexpensive (under $100 with 100 8 1/2 x 11 sheet holders). You could turn out a half-dozen or more driver's licenses in one pass ;-)

It's easy enough to scan some things and make a template of that ID so you can just type the needed data into the proper places and for things that need a signature, you'd have the person getting the ID sign that new name so it's in his/her handwriting if anyone checks it against the signature on a check or other document. Getting the right size pictures just needs a picture at close to the correct angle (straight-on or profile) and re-sizing an image is easy even with pre-2000 graphics software.

You *could* do Google search for "fake ID" that that's probably among the phrases Google monitors for (Big Brother IS watching you.)

[biggkidd]

Personally I think all the stories would read better if we all made comments on a comment page for each story and left the story ONLY in the story page.


Also I think I may be a halfway decent proofreader / content editor if anyone want's to give that a try they can contact me. I will readily admit I am not a writer and no where near perfect at editing but many times two heads are better than one. Punctuation however is not my strong suite.

[rvm45]

Friends,

I have to vociferously disagree with what has been said about Equipment descriptions and Jerry Ahern.

Ahern had many flaws as a writer. He was infuriatingly Politikally Korrect. Punching out dudes for using Racial Perjorities and what-not. You never heard of FREEDOM OF SPEECH, Numb-Nuts!?!

Also, Ahern's characters always carry their pistols hammer-down "Condition Two." Ahern said in his factual articles that he was aware that "Cocked-and-Locked"was perfectly safe, but nonetheless he didn't FFEL (Use your best effeminate; whiny sissy voice for "FEEL") good carrying a cocked weapon.

One thing that Ahern DID DO—A GRAND AND GLORIOUS THING—Was make his Guns full-fledged characters—as important or MORE IMPORTANT than the human protagonist—I think this was a first with Ahern.

In the final analysis—GUNS MATTER. People, not so much…

And a Man who FAILS with a 1911A1 is a better person than some Nimrod who SUCEEDS with a Glock.

Polymer-Framed handguns are JUST WRONG—The same way that Incest is just wrong. How well or how poorly it WORKS" in a Pragmatic sense—is beside the point.


…..RVM45


BIG PS: What sets "Dirty Harry" apart from a host of far less memorable Law movies was THE .44 MAGNUM! Imagine if Dirty Harry'd rap had been:

"This is a big-bored Revolver—one of the more powerful ones…"

[freshwaterpearl]

I have no idea what a Glock-31 9mm Crysanthamum 48 is. I think one character should call it a gun, the next character call it a revolver, the next character Glock-31 ... He should also know the year is was made and what city. After that it is "the gun", or if there is more than one gun, "the Glock"